BioC: Small scale biodiesel and ethanol ... NOT

[Reedtb2@cs.com]

Dear Gasification and Bioconversion:

I agree that we should move "Biodiesel" discussion to BIOCONVERSION ...

But before we do maybe I can have a last word.

Making fuel alcohol or biodiesel is a chemical process.  Even though I can do 
both in my kitchen as a curiosity, it is not an efficient use of my time or 
expertise.  Eventually the process will be taken over by experts who have the 
time, the capital and the motivation to do it full time.  

The history of ETHANOL as a "farm fuel" should be an object lesson to us all. 
 In 1980 ETHANOL from grain burst on the scene (in Wisconsin) and many 
idealists thought this would be the process that would break the "hold" of 
the oil companies on our fuel production.  Subsidies were enacted to help the 
small producer.

Result?  Archer Daniel Midlands was able to use those subsidies far more 
efficiently than the small farmers (who had many other jobs and no expertise) 
to produce ethanol almost competitively with gasoline.  

Now we have ADM producing most of the ethanol used as fuel in this country 
and the farmers have gone back to farming.  

If BIODIESEL is going to be a favored diesel fuel, some large entity like ADM 
will likely produce it - not the shade tree mechanics who would have to go 
back to school for 4-8 years to learn chemical engineering in order to 
compete.  

If I sound like Harry Parker, it is because we both speak from long 
experience as chemical engineers.  I spent several years in 1989-1993 
promoting biodiesel from waste oil, only to get in a law suit with a large 
company that left a very bitter taste in my mouth.  

Yours truly,                        TOM REED        BEF 



In a message dated 1/4/01 10:58:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
keith@journeytoforever.org writes:
> Andrew Heggie <andrew.heggie@dtn.ntl.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 01:39:43 +0900, you wrote:
> >
> > >Not only in the western world. But yes, very many of the existing
> > >diesel vehicles are going to be around for a long time. For future
> > >vehicles, the new PNGV diesel hybrids (80 mpg) seem ideal candidates
> > >for biodiesel. And again there's the lubricity issue with the ULS
> > >diesel fuel of the future.
> >
> >Just a couple of points as I suggest most of this discussion is better
> >on BIOENERGY:
>
> Yes, I'm a bit embarrassed about it, I wouldn't have started this 
> discussion here. But I should respond to some of your points.
>
> <snip>
>
> >I take the point, however home or small scale production is
> >problematical, not least of which are that the byproduct is of poor
> >quality and contains reagent that an industrial user would recover. I
> >guess a home producer may use 50% more alcohol to produce the
> >methoxide than an industrial system.
>
> Of course it depends on FFA quantities, but not higher than 20% 
> methanol, and a new method uses only 11% methanol for a high-quality 
> product, even with lousy oil to start with. Other people are working 
> on the glycerine problem. Several worthwhile other uses for it so 
> far, but more work needs to be done on cleaning it.
>
> <snip>
>
> >This is an excellent point in a UK context, currently we rebate LPG
> >exceedingly heavily, ostensibly as it is a low polluting transport
> >fuel (there is an issue that it was becoming a problem because of
> >increased production from gas distribution).
>
> Less polluting at the tailpipe, but almost the same as other fossil 
> fuels in overall greenhouse gas emissions. Not a green fuel.
>
> >If the current DTI
> >greenfuels consultation results in a 20p/ltre reduction in road fuel
> >costs then biodiesel will become a premium road fuel, it will not
> >compete against rebated fossil fuels in stationary/agricultural uses.
>
> A level of 20p per litre (as opposed to 48.82p per litre for ULSD) 
> has been proposed.
>
> <snip>
>
> > >not necessarily a separate issue. I think ethyl esters biodiesel is
> > >the way forward, especially where local energy self-sufficiency is
> > >important. Ethanol is clean and you can make it yourself, methanol is
> > >toxic and usually fossil-fuel derived and you can't easily make it
> > >yourself. But it needs anhydrous ethanol, currently a stopping point.
> >Isn't the point here that synthesised methanol is anhydrous to start
> >with, I thought you would have similar saponification problems with
> >methanol if it were similarly contaminated with 5% water.
>
> Yes you would have, and I think the ethyl ester process is more 
> sensitive to water. So we have to dry the ethanol. The new 
> small-scale stills will produce high proof, less water to remove.
>
> <snip>
>
> >It looks to me that co production of both ethanol and biodiesel would
> >integrate well at a farm scale.
>
> I think so too. Farm or village community. Especially as diesels will 
> also run on ethanol. And on straight vegetable oil. Lots of options. 
> Makes extra sense considering Ken C Calvert's point about the wide 
> availability of cheap engines from scrapped cars.
>
> <snip>
>
> >Still the possibilities of using the adsorption characteristics of
> >cellulosic biomass to dry the ethanol/water constant boiling mixture
> >to the anhydrous state and then use the biomass in a further heating
> >role look interesting.
>
> With corn grits (or wheat), you can regenerate it for further use, 
> and when it finally loses its efficiency you add it to the next batch 
> of mash to make more ethanol. A prof here in Tokyo has patented a 
> method of making high-quality mole sieves from kitchen wastes, 
> interesting.
>
> <snip>
>
> > >Electric transportation too often merely transfers the pollution from
> > >one place to another, and in some cases the power generation can
> > >cause more pollution, not less.
> >
> >Valid with a smart charge controller and a variable renewable source
> >with no fuel cost, like solar or wind power in the absence of a grid
> >intertie though.
> ><snip>
> > >>BTW  I drive a diesel Peugeot which will happily travel 100km on 
> >7 litres of
> > >>biodiesel and when that is inappropriate for the trip, there is always 
> my
> > >>home built 4 seater EV which returns 100km for 29kWh drawn from the 
> mains.
> > >>With a top speed of 85mph, its a great car to drive!
> > >
> > >Well done. But can't you find a better source than the mains?
> > >
> >A quick calculation here suggests the diesel is likely to be more
> >efficient use of fuel unless the electricity is surplus and generated
> >by wind/wave/pv/hydro:
> >
> >Diesel 7ltre -> 75.82 kWhr(t) 25% conversion?? ->19kWhr per 100km
> >electric 29kWhr per 100km
> >
> >So the electricity must be generated very efficiently to make the
> >energy account balance, this neglects also the cost per kWhr of
> >battery O+M and replacement, which I have seen calculated as high as
> >USD0.13kWhr.
> >AJH
>
> Thankyou Andrew, very useful numbers to have.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith Addison