Re: DIG-L: a note on "philosophical" vs. "technical" discussions

[doelle <doelle@ozemail.com.au>]

A very quick initial note to your questions.

Every developed country, whether Europe or USA has anaerobic digesters producing biogas in all towns and cities in form of sewerage plants. The difference is, we in the developed world burn the gas as a flare, whereas the developing world shows us how to make use of the gas.
Not true ? Well, China is using it for cooking for 60 odd years and the Philippines' Maya Farm has shown how to generate electricity from biogas.

Is that not interesting ?
The reasons are simple : it depends who has been spoiled by the availability of oil !!!
Also a philosophical thpought
Horst Doelle
At 02:40  18/02/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>a note on "philosophical" vs. "technical" discussions
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Hello all,
>
>I have been subscribed to this discussion for a couple of years and
>haven't contributed much, as my technical background is limited to basic
>chemistry and biology but what I've noticed is a lack of "philosophical"
>rather than "technical" discussion of how best to make anaerobic digesters
>a focal point in changing our USA "lifestyle" of wastefulness. 
>
>For example, if I might digress a moment:
>
>My main interest is designing superinsulated homes with very high r values
>and low air infiltration, to reduce the heating and cooling loads by up to
>90%. Technically, this is very easy and the result is that one requires
>only passive solar gain and a very, very small furnace to heat the home
>even in the coldest of climates. 
>
>This fact lead me to explore composting as a heat source, as I also am an
>avid gardener, growing my own food in the summer and I visit all the local
>horse stables to pick up manure for aerobic composting. 
>
>This lead me to some "philosophical" musings:
>
>I live in Detroit, Michigan and out of curiosity, I looked up just how
>many farms were using anaerobic composting to not only recycle the sludge,
>but also generate methane. To my surprise, there were less than a handful
>of farms listed and all had abandoned their attempts to recover methane. 
>
>I found this curious, as I am aware that in Europe this is not the case
>and I concluded that the USA was not only technically behind Europe but
>also in general, ill informed about just how much methane is available not
>only on farms but from all our waste products in the urban and industrial
>centers. 
>
>To get to my point:
>
>if methane recovery is to become a way of life, the general populace
>itself must become aware of the feasibility and begin to support it,
>rather than put their tax dollars into landfills, incinerators, and waste
>treatment plants which recover no methane. 
>
>To accomplish that, I have a couple of questions for which
>the answers should be made a focal point of public discussions:
>
>For our entire USA, how much organic waste is generated annually? This
>would include farms, cities, food processing, industry, sewage, etc. 
>
>This should also be calculated for individual cities, to use
>as a point of departure in gaining public support.
>
>i.e: in Detroit, Michigan how much organic garbage and waste presently
>ends up in landfills, incinerators, down the toilet to sewage treatment,
>etc. 
>
>In short, is this type of data readily available and where?
>
>Once one has that data, convert it all to a realistic methane
>output, if it was all collected and utilized in digesters.
>
>Again, have these conversions been done and where?
>
>Then, calculate the pay back to the community for investing in the
>technology and calculate the utility savings if that methane was
>redistributed as electricity, compared to energy costs from standard
>fossil fuel and nuclear power plants. 
>
>If that cost of electricity was reduced compared to conventional
>energy costs, I should think it would be an "easy sell" to communities.
>
>Even if it was a "breakeven" amount compared to conventional energy costs,
>it would still be supported when one also considers the ecological
>advantages and cost savings. 
>
>For example, methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon
>dioxide and it is better to burn it for fuel, rather than just let it
>escape to the atmosphere from landfills, etc. 
>
>Also compare methane to coal in generating electricity, which continues to
>add sulfur dioxide to the air and the problems with acid rain. 
>
>In addition, with the present interest in fuel cells rapidly increasing,
>methane is the fuel of choice for both automotive and residential fuels
>cells for the creation of electricity, at least until we establish a pure
>hydrogen pipe line distribution system in the USA or create better forms
>of solid metal hydrides for distribution. 
>
>Even then, methane could still compete in the marketplace if the cost of
>the technology was reduced with widespread usage of anaerobic digesters,
>as fuel cells can convert any hydrocarbon to electricity. 
>
>In conclusion, I have seen very little if any, of these types of
>"philosophical" rather than "technical" discussions in this discussion
>group. 
>
>I realize that this group is mainly a "technical" forum but it seems there
>is a certain amount of futility in discussing technical matters if one
>does not also discuss realistic ways to inform the public, so that there
>is also a way to support the widespread implementation of the technology. 
>
>Last, I would point out that other alternative energy technologies have in
>fact, done their "public homework" to build support. Just look at the
>advances in greater use of photovoltaic systems and wind power in the USA
>over the last 10 years. 
>
>Then, compare that increased use to that of methane recovery and I think
>you will agree, that we have failed in the USA to educate the public about
>the feasibility of widespread use of anaerobic digesters. 
>
>
>--
>         .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
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Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
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