Re: ICS-200 output current limit

["William Korthof" <wkorthof@earthlink.net>]

> From: Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter <BruceDP@iname.com>
> 
> Will, you have confirmed what I thought.
> No matter what the AC source voltage 208 or 220 VAC, the safest upper
> limit ICS-200 charge station is 30 amps output current.

Actually, they are default-set to 32 amps for virtually all sites (AFAIK). 
The way the current protection is configured, the overcurrent condition 
(current over 32 amps) must continue for 1 minute before the warning 
message/ power-off kicks in. 

The 32 amp limit is based on the fact that the boxes are installed on 
40 amp circuits, and 32 amps is the maximum continuous consumption 
permitted by the code for a 40 amp circuit (80%). 

If you have a charger available that can pull more than 80% of your circuit

breaker's rating, it can be **very** tempting to test that limit. I've had
that 
experience many times....when it takes hours (or whaterver) to recharge, 
shaving off 10% (or more) is tempting. Unfortunately, it DOESN'T ALWAYS 
work--let's just say it's no fun to come back to your EV hours after
plugging 
in only to discover that the breaker popped, and the battery's empty, and 
now you really have a wait ahead. 

Anyway...with those comments in mind...EVI has done an excellent job 
with their boxes. The standard "level 2" boxes are built with contactors 
rated for 40-75 amps, and software configurable for up to a 60 amp 
circuit breaker (48 amps). You can check out and download all the 
charger packages from the EVI web site, (www.evii.com), and you can 
order the interface tool for programming the charger boxes with a laptop. 
 
> Since the most readily available and affordable charger to use this
> power is the Zivan NG5, this is where I will focus my attention. The
> other charger I was considering wasn't much of an option before (it
> didn't know when to turn off, and is more expensive), and now that it
> will draw more than the safe upper current limit of an ICS-200, it
> definitely is not an option. I am sure you will let us know the
> details/specs if AC Propulsion offers a charger that can used for
> conversion EVs.

AC Propulsion offers drive systems with a built-in, high power chargers, 
but not stand-alone chargers. The idea is to make dual use of high power 
electronics. Unfortunately, our drive systems are not necessarily 
accesable ($) for many converters. 

Does the Zivan exceed 32 amps line current? If so, is there a way to 
limit the line current draw? Keep in mind that 32 amps is a fair amount 
of power; 6.5 to 7.7 kVA. 
 
> My next step is pending Ron Freund's magic. Once I get the AVCON
> adapter, I can connect the two Zivan K2 chargers I have (similar in
> characteristics to one NG5), and see the current wave forms. I will do
> this on both a standard 14-50 40 amp outlet (similar to a RV outlet)
> and on a adapted ICS-200 charge station.
> 
> I hope to spend the money to see what we need to do before anyone
> else, as I want to minimize anyone from being burned (buy all the
> stuff and then it does not work).
> 
> It has to be proven first, but my desire would be to state that a
> person could have an AVCON adapter, feed the AC to a Zivan NG5 and
> utilize the available power.
> 
> I know that when I plug in both of my K2's, my charging current into
> my pack is 31 amps maximum. For an 80% charge after 50 miles / 95
> ahrs, it takes 4 hours (155V on a 132V pack, charge current drops to 4
> amps, charging stopped before the equalization cycle).
> 
> ...
> Not unlike the use with a gas car, having the tank meter read zero
> when really you still have a couple of gallons left, this equates to
> reading zero when there still is 5 miles left in a EV's pack.
> 
> And perhaps not unlike not 'topping off' a gas tank and just letting
> the gas pump 'pop off' (meaning your tank is full), equates to only
> charging my pack to 80% and not waiting for the slow finishing /
> equalization cycle (which can be done later).
> 
> Perhaps EVs should have a 'real world' range figures like:
> NiMH EV1: 6 hour recharge to 80% / 80 miles,
>           9 hour recharge to 100% / 100 miles
> (I don't know what the recharge times are yet, these figures were
> guesstimates).

>From my one-day test drive, the numbers for the NiMH EV1 are: 
0-->80% ~3.5 hours
0-->100% ~5 hours
EV1's with the Panasonic Lead Acid batteries seem to be about: 
0-->80% ~3 hours
0-->100% ~5 hours
(not much difference between the two)

> This means using just the two K2 chargers, my Blazer would have a
> figure of: 4 hour recharge to 80% / 40 miles,
>            6 hour recharge to 100% / 50 miles
> 
> One might ask, wait why does yours take so long if it has less
> capacity? The charger I am using is less efficient than a magnecharger
> (energy wasted as heat rather than put into the pack), and it's
> charging algorithm is not optimized for a quick to 80% charging (it
> tapers to soon).
> 
> Using only the 80% figure, will give me 10 miles of range put back into
> my pack for every hour of charge. This is as useful as a person who know
> 
> how many mpg they get, and only stopping long enough to put back the
> gallons they used (without having to wait for the topping off time).
> 
> BTW: Using all my chargers, two 220VAC & four 120VAC chargers, connected
> 
> to two 14-50 40 amp circuits, my recharge time is 2 hrs.
> 
> I can use this for a trip to Sacramento. First stop, Alameda recharge
> for 2 hrs, Vacaville recharge for 4 hrs, Sacramento recharge for 4 hrs.
>
> One hour of driving between charges, makes the total trip time of:
> 1 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 4 = 13 hours to go 130 miles.
> 
> If I had a second adapter and a NG5, I could cut the time down to:
> 1+ 2 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 2 = 11 hours to go 130 miles.
> I think I could do this.

Interesting that you should mention that...Tom Dowling just posted 
on the EV1 list that with his brand new NiMH EV1, he just did the 
trip from North Sacramanto (Folsom) to San Jose (and the return) 
~140 miles without recharging **anywhere** en route in either direction. 
3 hours---driving only.He also mentioned earlier trips on the same route 
with a Delphi EV1, where it took about 8-12 hours to make the trip 
each way. 

I hope your project works..i.It would be great to see more conversion 
vehicles doing getting set up and covering more distance. 

/wk