Re: CVT Insight

["Mitchell Oates" <mitchoates@prodigy.net>]

      My, my, make a simple FYI post and everyone starts reading 
alterior motives into it.
      Now John, I had my say on the Insight before, why beat a dead 
horse? The only purpose behind the post was to let people that 
were interested in possibly acquiring a CVT Insight (regardless of 
my personal feelings about the car) have some info on the EPA 
mileage ratings, know what the base price was, and what the 
dealers were asking for them in this neck of the woods.
      If you look at the post again, my only negative comments were 
directed at the dealership. I mentioned the "local rip-off car dealers" 
at the beginning of the post, and marveled at how this particular 
dealer could justify adding over $1000 to the price of a car (ANY 
car) simply by adding genuine Honda floor mats.
      If memory serves me correctly, you told us at great length 
about your trials and tribulations getting your Insight thru a similar 
rip-off dealership out in Portland, who marked up the car by at least 
$2000 for no other reason than he felt he could get that price.
      You know me well enough to know that I don't subscribe to the 
"damning with faint praise" school of thought, but that if I have 
anything negative to say I'll train the 16 inch guns on target and 
start blasting, everything will be out in the open.
     I've never criticized the BASE price of the Insight in and of itself, 
 although others have. My comments were that I felt the Prius 
would be the better performer in the sales category, given almost 
equal pricing, in a side by side comparison with the Insight due to 
other factors such as looks, seating capacity, accessories, the 
general preference for autos vs sticks, etc..
     While I do share your distaste for automatics (anyone who 
learned "three on the tree" can certainly handle "five on the floor"), I 
feel that the addition of the CVT version will increase sales, given 
the general public's preference for autos. I'm glad to see this, 
because even though you feel the 57/56 ratings are "dismal" in 
comparison to the five speed, that's still a damn sight better than 
most cars which are lucky to get in the mid 20's to low 30's WITH 
a five speed. Even though I personally dislike the car, if Insight 
sales doubled because of offering the CVT, I'd be tickled pink 
because it means that many more people burning a lot less gas.
     You were correct in saying that I'm not considering buying an 
Insight. Other than my distaste for the styling of the rear end and 
the lack of rear and side visibility, when it comes to buying a car 
I'm a cheapskate. I bought the Subaru I have now because, at the 
time, it was a solid built quality car with good gas mileage and one 
of the lower priced ones available. Sad to say, I probably won't buy 
another one as they seem to have become devoted to the 
SUV/Luxury car market with a commesurate increase in price, and 
the gas mileage is nothing to brag about. Also, of late practically 
100% of my driving has been EV, thanks to the large battery pack 
in the truck. The only time I've started the Subaru in the past month 
has been for a short while each weekend to keep the starting 
battery from going dead. Why pay $20K or better for a car that's 
simply going to serve as an EV backup and spend 95% of the time 
sitting in the driveway?
     My trip this past Sunday I was looking to see if there were any 
of the 5 speed versions of the Toyota Echo or Honda Civic CVT 
HX's available locally and what the asking price was. I had been 
looking through a Consumer Guide book on 2001 autos, and these 
seemed to be the top picks for a combination of low price, quality, 
and excellent (for a straight ICE) gas mileage. However, I couldn't 
find a single example of these locally, and came across the CVT 
Insight quite by chance.
     As far as the rip-off dealerships, there were four 
(Dodge/Chrysler, Toyota, Ford, Honda) side-by-side on the road 
next to I-77. It seems more than coincidental that the lowest priced 
car on ANY of these lots was $15K after dealer markup, more like 
local price fixing. The Honda dealership just happened to be the 
most blatant and obvious offender, a reflection on the management 
of that dealership and not of Honda itself. Even on a Civic DX with a 
factory invoice of $11K, they listed every conceivable add-on they 
could to justify raising the price to nearly $16K.

                                                      Mitch Oates