RE: Advanced Batteries

[ethorpe@gric.com]

Victor,

Would Zebra be open to several EVer getting together for a group purchase?
What size packaging are they currently working with - just the Z5B (17.5kw,
28"x21"x12", 451 lbs)? They have a great looking product - high power, small
package, self-contained. Would really like to see this become available,
even with its perferred focus on AC motors/controls.

With your price quotes, this battery size would be ~$13,300 with possible
pricing down to ~$5,320. Looking better and better.

-Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:vtikhono@lsil.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Advanced Batteries


The Zebra is quoted at about $760/kWh, the prices can drop to $304/kWh
(less than SAFT NiCd $500/kWh). They prefer to deal with large OEMs
though.

The web site is not updated for > 4 years.

I keep an eye on this. Here is email I got 2 days ago from Beta
research:

==================

Dear Victor

Thanks for e mail.

We (Beta ) would be happy to quote for a special battery. In the past we
have often made the first one
to three batteries and if a larger number was then required, MES-DEA
have
taken over and produced the larger numbers. A 'special' is really
anything
that is different to the standard product, i.e. size(LxWxH), and
voltage.

We have made 'specials' for new applications where a change is required
such
as more insulation for a lower heat loss or for low rate applications no
cooling system is needed. Also we make 'specials' with improvements in
cells such as extra capacity giving a higher energy density and more
range.

It is reasonably easy to quote for a battery of required voltage, the
difficult bit is coming up with dimensions that are suitable for the
application! As you probably realize there are a limited ways of
arranging
the cells in a pack to give exactly the voltage and capacity required.

Full qualification is carried out on the cells even for specials, but
usually qualification of complete batteries is only undertaken when the
final design is set for production.

You will have to ask Dr Dustmann about prices for  production batteries.
The
present price MES-DEA charge for a Z5 is about #500/kWh. This comes down
with numbers ordered and as the factory production goes up in future
years,
I have seen under #200/kWh quoted. Don't use these numbers however ask
Dr
Dustmann!!

If you want any more info please do not hesitate to contact me again.


Regards

Roger

Dr A R Tilley
Beta R & D Ltd
50 Goodsmoor Rd
Sinfin
Derby DE24 9GN
UK

=========================

Dave Davidson wrote:
> 
> I am curious as to what advanced batteries are available at amy price (and
> the price, just for grins).  I looked at the Saft website and they also
show
> NiMH and Li-ion batteries.  Are these available?  What about the Zebra
> battery?  It looks interesting from their website, but not a lot of
details
> or options given.  Is it possible to buy an Ovionic or Panasonic NiMH
> battery?  It seems like I read of all this great research and how
excellent
> new batteries work in vehicles, but I never see any of them actually
offered
> for sale.  Even Saft doesn't list the larger batteries used in my TEVan.
> No, I didn't win the Powerball (maybe next time :^), I'm just interested.
> 
> Dave Davidson
> Laurel, MD
> 1993 Dodge TEVan
> 
> >ssr@uswestmail.net writes:
> > >
> > > I finally found the SAFT web site, and I tried to send a message, but
> > > I got a VB Script error (permission refused) when trying to submit it.
> > > Do you have a price list for the Ni-Cd or Ni-MH batteries from SAFT?
> > > If you don't maybe I can ask the whole list.
> 
> >Mark,
> >
> >Lou Magnarella is the SAFT Sales Manager for EV's in the USA.  His e-mail
> >address is louis.magnarella@saftamerica.com.  His phone number in Georgia
> >is 912-245-3015.  He'll be able to give you whatever information you
need.
> >
> >Ralph
> >
> >
> >
> >  From : "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <roden@ald.net> To :
> >ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject :Re: Electric Vehicles List Date : Fri, 31
Aug
> >2001 13:09:51 -0400
> >
> >On 31 Aug 2001, at 6:27, Justduckyno1@aol.com wrote:
> > > So what would likely be the price on NiCads?
> >
> >About $550 per kwh.  A typical 144v, 100ah pack (24 6-v modules) runs
> >somewhere in the $8,000 - $8,500 range.  You also need a more
> >sophisticated charger and a cooling system (fans or a liquid system
> >depending on which module type).
> >
> >Cycle life helps to make up for the cost -- it is rated at 2,500 to
>3,500
> >cycles, around 4 to 7 times the life of lead batteries.
> >
> >They are also appreciably lighter for a given amount of energy storage --
> >the best lead batteries yield around 36 wh/kg (watt-hours per kilogram),
> >and the nicads are around 55 wh/kg.
> >
> >http://www.saft.alcatel.com/automotive/uk/datasheet/d2_2.htm
> >
> >These are made in France by Saft, just about the only company making EV-
> >size nicads.  They are the only affordable alternative to lead that I
> >know.  NiMH and Lithium cost several times as much.
> >
> >Nickel Zinc (Evercell) shows some promise.  It has slightly higher
> >specific energy than nicad (they claim 60 wh/kg) and sells for slightly
> >less ($500 per kwh; a 144v 100ah pack would be $7,200).  But at 600
> >cycles they can't even approach nicads' cycle life, so the cost per mile
> >is much higher.
> >
> >There are a few list members using Saft nicads, though some of us were
> >able to get them used for somewhat less money.
> >
> >
> >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> >  switch to digest mode?  See http://help.evdl.org/  (note:  no "www.")
> >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> >1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> >1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> >1979 General Engines ElectroPed 24vdc
> >1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> >thou knowest."  Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> >=
> 
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