Re: Sheer's Fuel Cell Rant

["Thomas J Webster" <ford1929@frontiernet.net>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon "Sheer" Pullen" <sheer@brassrat.net>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:52 PM
Subject: Sheer's Fuel Cell Rant


> I apologize in advance if this message is too political for the list.
>
> I suspect the reason so much money is dumped into this technology is
> twofold:
>
> 1) Batteries with mechanical recharge processes can be recharged
> considerably faster than ones that are electrochemical. Hence, a fuel cell
> in a vehicle would give it the same range as a conventionally fueled
> vehicle.
> 2) Fuel cells offer big oil a hope of still selling their petrochemicals,
> and so they fund research into them.
>
> FWIW, I personally would rather drive a electrochemical-battery powered
car
> than a fuel cell car. To my mind, driving a car powered by a fuel cell
> powered by compressed hydrogen is going to be hideously inefficient -
> because not only do you have to expand the energy to split the hydrogen
out
> of water, you also have to expand the energy to compress it to a density
> that makes it easy to store. I got a EV because I wanted to be _more_
> efficient, not less.
>
> [Caveat: I've heard of a developed hydrogen tank that doesn't require
large
> amounts of energy to store large amounts of hydrogen. Something about
borax,
> unfortunately I missed a lot of the details. If there is a catalytic way
to
> store large amounts of hydrogen that doesn't cost a lot of watts, I'm all
> for it]
>
> The other problem with most hydrogen/oxygen style fuel cells is that they
> seem to require platinum in largish quantities. Now, I don't know about
you,
> but I don't have $100,000 to spend on my battery pack.
>
> [Caveat: I've heard of a process that will install a two-or-three atom
thick
> layer of platinum on top of another metal, making it possible to make fuel
> cells price competitive with batteries. I haven't seen anyone actually
doing
> this yet, though]
>
> As for reformers, well, you have to ask yourself, if the car you're
driving
> is still starting wars for it's fuel source and still powered off a finite
> resource what's the point?
>
> As for Zinc/air, and other Zinc based fuel cells, well, I'd really like to
> see one that worked and was cost effective. But I won't shell out the
bucks
> until I see some hard numbers that look better than the ones I've been
> seeing.
>
> I'm all for others researching these technologies. But I don't want to see
> one in my driveway until it can compete with the technology that's already
> in my car. And I don't want to hear about how detroit is holding out for
any
> of these pie in the sky technologies, when NiZn, NiMH, and  NaNiCl all
offer
> cost effective solutions taht could put Joe Sixpack behind the wheel of a
EV
> that, at least within a hundred mile range, performed like his ICE -
today.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RodHower@aol.com>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Fuel Cells [semi-OT]
>
>
> > I won't debate any of the comments made by Roger since
> > I really don't know that much about fuel cells.
> > However, I am currently working with 10 different companies on
> > various fuel cell projects that need pumps and blowers (BLDC of course).
> > Most of these are for residential or remote site applications, but
> > there must be a reason there is so much money being dumped
> > into this new technology.
> > When the kinks are worked out for stationary applications I think
> > the technology will be cost effectively applied to moving (ie. EV)
> > projects.
> > Rod.
> >
>
>
Hey guys, I agree with sheer. I don't want one in my driveway. I have read
reports saying the auto companies hide behind fuel crackers saying: We
cannot make a hydrogen fuel cell because it would shock the public. They
wouldn't like it. The public needs to have a gasoline powered fuel cell to
try to ween them  from useing gasoline. I have also heard the line, "You
can't run a car off of hydrogen!!!!! It will blow up!!! Look at the
hindenburg!!!!!!" The auto companies have been hiding behind fuel cells
sence the '60s? I think that has caused the public to loose intrest in them?
Auto companies are looking into different ways to create fuel cells? GM I
think is building a hydrogen cell that is filled with a genetic altered pond
scum that releases hydrogen? This is what the news has spred around the
general public? I think this shows the BS that is given to beer drinking Joe
Shmoe?
With all the above, I take it with a grain of salt. - Tom