re:GAS-L: Re: Hand firing vs. automated ???

["skip goebel" <146942@email.msn.com>]

Dear Skip and all:

1)  Your 50 kWh has an energy content of 180E6 Joules.  The 1000 lb (454 kg)
of 10% MC wood (18 MJ/kg) has an energy content of 8.2E9 Joules.  So,  50 kW
from 1000 lb of wood is an efficiency of 2.2%.  Your better engine is still
less than 5%.  A gasifier can achieve 20% efficiency using easily available
engines.
>>>>>
2% is all I ever wanted.  In my book, practicality always takes a back seat
to practicality.  While i.c. engines are way more efficient (if you can find
a cheap one that will last), steam offers a dual usage.  doing something
with the exhaust heat is where the payoff comes, not from making
electricity.  Providing heat without the presence of oxygen is why steam is
used in the real world.  The motive power is just a nice benefit.

2)  I don't know where you got $250,000 for a device to lift 1,000 lb per
hour.  Farmers have wonderful bucket elevators etc. for this costing
<$10,000.  I hope Tom Miles will get us into the right ballpark on this.
>>>>>
In all three salvages, the cost of building a building, lots of concrete
banks for bulk storage, and a 50-100 cubic yard silo/steel bin tower provide
the majority of the initial cost.  Then, a maint. man to make it keep
working reliably.  This was my point anyways.....if you already have a
fireman, he can keep on top of things and do two jobs at once.
>>>>>>
If we lift your 1,000 lb to a height of 6 feet it will require 6,000 ft lb
of
energy, and can be accomplished by a 0.03 hp motor.  And you want to use a
Human Being to accomplish this! Shame on you.  There is a dignity to labor,
but not wasted labor.
>>>>
In one case- a greenhouse in Ca. that uses pistachio hulls in a 100hp boiler
figured that over the three years he had it, including salvage losses, he is
out $350,000.  and all he was doing was heating large greenhouses.
After lengthy discussion, he agrees that hand firing (he had olive and
orange waste wood available) would have been the answer but right now,
nothing beats natural gas and I have to agree.

There are those who have to make a living and those who live off the grant
system.

I am not saying hand firing with large pieces should replace automated (and
dont forget the energy required to hog that wood, Tom), but I think that it
has some applications.  If I remember correctly,. there is a powerplant in
Sweeden that burns entire trees.  It might be worth a study.
Skip



The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml