Re: GAS-L: Oh!! -- that small steam power plant ---

[Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>]

At 04:26 PM 3/18/00 -0600, you wrote:
>pete, dont judge 500 hp engines and expect them to scale down with the same
>efficiency.

Ah -- but that is just what I intend to do!

>the unaflow is a convenient design.  that is why my new engines are that
>way.

Yes -- in all my investigations over the years it keep surfacing as the
bast single stage design -- which means economic.

>
>compounded engines for the last 100 years have routinely got better than
>15lbs/hp.
>

Yes - that same chart shows a compound engine getting 12.2 lbs to the hp --
fully 1 lbs more economic. That is a 1500 HP triple compound. But only
between 95 to 105% load -- very peaky!


>turbines are very expensive to maintain.
>

Yes -- but I don't want to argue with the turbine crowd. They always claim
different.


>life? hours?  get real.  in normal use, the engine outlives you.

Again -- I used the worse case scenario. It still makes the unaflow
competitive.


>by utilizing batteries and inverters at the load source, i have set up
>systems where the whole village is powered by a steam engine running 4hrs a
>day at 25kw   and that was 70 apartments with english standard of living.
>in new zeland, there is a use for the heat and efficiency is irrelevant.(an
>increase of effectiveness by a factor of 10)

Yes -- but it would be nice to produce the same 25 kwh with a boiler, and
the rest of the front end, 1/3 or more less in size. 

>
>in the third world, process steam makes more sense than electricity.  they
>need money and industry.  electricity is just a side benefit.
>


They are paying 18 cents US per kwh here. And electrical consumption, per
capita, though now where as great in a country such as the US, is still
increasing at a great rate. 

I can "sell" for 11 cents US per kwh. But I have to pay for the biomass
(wood/wood chips) -- so I can't afford the luxury of not counting the cost
of the biomass fuel.

To make that work -- I need at least 20% over all efficiency. I have
studied some very nice designs. Foster Wheeler is building nice biomass
combustion units (fluid bed gasifiers/steam turbines  -- 1600psi -- 900F)
in the 10 mwe range that get better than 20% efficiency over all. At
reasonable capital costs as well.

But the niche market is 500Kw to one megawatt plants. As per capita use is
so low -- distribution of power over long distances become futile. Hard to
pay the costs of the lines when so little market is at the other end. The
cost of a 50 mile main power line is greater than the cost of the plant to
make the same amount of power.

A small village -- off in the bush -- would be happy with 5kw. And a plant
along the lines you produce now would be perfect -- as in these small
systems -- you right -- the extra biomass amount needed due to lower
efficiency is piddling amount.

Batteries and inverters are not needed -- as running 4 to 6 hours per day
would be all they need.

Further -- as you have already pointed out -- just steam power would be
enough. For pumping water -- corn grinding mill -- refrigeration. Makes no
sense to go steam electric then electric motor -- just go small steam
engine where mechanical power is needed. 

Just need an economic and good boiler engine design. I have better go to
you WWW site -- and check it out. Must be 8 months since the last time I
did. But prices were "steep" (for 3rd world) back then.

Just did quickly -- your Volk's Rabbit is certainly in better shape than
mine!!

>i will be going to kosovo soon to set up steam and biodeisel operations.  It
>is my own way of fucking the new world order.

Wow! Quite a mission you got going for you! Best of luck.



Peter in Belize


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The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml