GAS-L: Internal Combustion --- oops!

[Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>]

Sorry Andrew --

I was just working up a reply when that message got sent off to you by
mistake. Had it cued when it should not have been.

But actually -- I can't find the time to go into detail over it.

Basically -- I was going to prove by math modeling why it is hopeless to
get maximum power from an internal combustion engine using producer gas in
a manner that all would grasp -- to the entire list.

What got shot off to you by accident was the early rough draft.

There is just to much nitrogen in producer gas!!

The only way to go -- the step that will make gasification of biomass
"real" -- it to use a steam atmosphere to steam reform carbon to synthesis
gas.

I have went into this subject -- on this same list -- in great detail in
the past.

My belief if that pursuing the present state of are producer gas generators
is a waste of technical initiative. And can never succeed!

They were steam reforming carbons to synthesis gas more that 100 years ago!
The technology is well recorded!

Modern World is in a rut when it comes to true scientific innovation.
Bankers simply accept only what is politically correct. Ergo -- everyone is
still playing with producer gas.

So goes the world -- every time it gets to fat -- it gets "lazy".

It will take hard and lean times -- such as another major depression
followed by a major world war -- before gasification technology can jump
start itself out of the present doldrums.

Glad I am out of that scenario -- being retired and parked in Belize,
Central America.

The simple fact will always be that you can never get enough producer gas
into any cylinder to make it burn enough to equal the petrol or diesel
rating of an internal combustion engine. I would do the math model -- but
am simply to flooded with other more interesting concepts to investigate in
depth. Plus -- why rain on this parade. Everyone is having a good time.

But I would be surprised if the "derating" is less than 50%.

Sometimes this list reminds me of the old "Flat Heads Forever" clubs --
that kept insisting that side valve engines where the best -- long after
everyone knew they were mechanical history due to inherent inefficiencies.
Sure it was ridiculous -- but all had "fun".

Just like the guys over at the flat world society.

And just like the gasifiers discussed on this mail list.

I also saw more or less the same over at the Tesla Turbine Mail lists.

Everyone beating "dead" technology thinking it will pull the load. 

Wait till we really do run out of petroleum products! Then the real science
will come back. For now -- we simply "play".

What else is there to do?

Someday -- if I live long enough -- I might well have the capability to
build a compact steam reformer that produces synthesis gas. Or even -- if
you want to power an internal combustion engine -- the much easier steam
reforming -- methane. It would be simple to do.

For now though -- it is flat heads, flat worlders, and gasifiers left over
from WW2 that make producer gas!

I am certainly in no feasible position to rock this boat -- and could not
care less what this world wants to waste its time on. 

By the way -- producer gas does work well in firing boilers! But then -- it
always did!

Also -- notice how they are "reaching" in certain fluid bed designs by
using pure oxygen. Very complicated method to prove a crippled process
worthy. Over engineering at its finest.

No matter which way you slice this cake -- we are wasting our time
concentrating so much effort on gasifiers making producer gas. Fast
pyrolization followed by steam reforming the residual carbon into synthesis
gas is the way to go. The heat to run this process comes from the
pyrolization gases and is chemically invested into the synthesis or methane
gasses so produced.

The result in either case is a gas "rich" enough to operate any motor with
out derating.

Other advantages are high pressure output more suitable to storage in high
pressure tanks and clean gas -- chars/tars steam reform to
synthesis/methane gas.



Peter Singfield
COROGEN
Executive Director
Xaibe Village
Corozal District
Belize, Central America
Tel 501-4-35213
E-mail: snkm@btl.net

Original blooper:

Explosive combustion gasses are drawed into a cylinder that is then
compressed to such great ratios that compression ignition by heat is
accomplished as diesel fuel oil is injected to this compression zone.

I have a problem with this -- how come nobody is talking about the "air".
Neither the diesel or the producer gas will burn without oxygen. The common
source for that is that part found mixed with our atmosphere.

It exists as a percentage of all; with the rest of it neighbors -- we list
this community here:

H20 O2 N2 CO2 

Mix this with producer gas now --

*************Andrew's reply*******************

At 12:19 AM 4/19/00 +0100, you wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:26:52 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Explosive combustion gasses are drawed into a cylinder that is then
>The output of the gasifier is first cleaned and cooled, it is then
>mixed with air in a simple carburetor device, this mixture is drawn
>into the engine by the normal induction process. The next stroke
>compresses it. Then we have the choice of how to ignite it, simplest
>is spark as in a petrol engine. The drawback is most petrol engines do
>not have a high enough compression ratio to get the best from the gas,
>also if the gasifier is sporadic in its output the engine stops.
>
>If a diesel engine is used instead the injection of diesel initiates
>the combustion (offgas resists burning under compression until it
>detonates, bad for the engine), if the gasifier does not deliver then
>the diesel governor, sensing the engine slowing, opens up the diesel
>supply. The problem is that there must be sufficient excess air
>present to allow the diesel to burn cleanly, this may cause the
>offgas:air ratio to be too lean to support combustion of the offgas at
>certain power levels.
>
>I have no experience of this but it appears necessary to configure the
>diesel to run at a constant load on offgas plus 5% diesel and run on
>diesel at lower loads or to throttle the mixture entering the engine
>and just use 5% diesel to initiate the combustion.
>
>AJH
>
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