Re: GAS-L: Gas "topping" turbines

["Antonio G. P. Hilst" <antonio.hilst@merconet.com.br>]

Peter,
do you have information on the Kalina's (Ammonia) topping cicle? According to an
old Popular  Science, August 1986. It should be in use by now.
Antonio

Peter Singfield wrote:

> At 09:50 PM 1/26/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> >Joseph, and List,
> >
> >If you want to learn about large scale producer gas fired large combustion
> >turbines (CT), check out:
> >http://www.gasification.org/98GTC/Gtc00190.pdf
> >http://www.gasification.org/98GTC/Gtc00220.pdf
> >http://www.gasification.org/gtc99150.pdf
> >This is syngas from coal and oil.
> >
> >These links might be of interested as well if you are looking for smaller
> >scale turbines for biomass producer gas. The principles remain.
> >
> >In any case, what you need to look for are turbines fit to burn Low Caloric
> >Value gas. In case of gasturbines burning low CV gas is not quite as easy as
> >it may sound. It is specialized work to arrive at stable flame conditions.
> >
> >Apart from GE in the US, in Europe Siemens is among the suppliers for larger
> >low CV gas fired CT's, in Japan Mitsubishi.
> >
> >A general list of manufacturers is:
> >http://gas-turbines.com/manufa/index.htm
> >but is doesn't seem complete.
> >
> >
> >Andries Weststeijn
> >
> >> ----------
>
> Yes -- and check out the gas cleaning required to do all this when
> gasifying biomasses! Truly awesome!
>
> The binary system is all about "topping" the thermodynamic reaction. I will
> eventually put an explanation of why that increases over all efficiencies
> in that "treatise" I am working on.
>
> I think they have lost touch with reality to use a gas turbine as the
> topping device. For that scale of project -- they could be using high
> quality steam boilers -- "topping" with a steam turbine -- and then binary
> cycling with a refrigerant.
>
> In fact -- in another corner of this world they are doing just that -- but
> in a most interesting way. It is called the Kalina Cycle -- water and ammonia.
>
> Search "Kalina Cycle"
>
> You can poke around:
>
> http://doegeothermal.inel.gov/fy95/energy/engind.htm
>
> The big advantage to steam topping rather than gas turbine topping is of
> course -- no fuel conditioning and loss of btu value inherent in the
> cleaning process. (at least 10% gone right there!!)
>
> About topping -- a quick example.
>
> Steam at 5000 psia and 1600 F = 1794.5 btu
>
> Steam at 20 psia and 400 F =    1239.2 btu
>
> Easy extraction at top mechanical efficiencies using steam turbine of 553.3
> btu's per pound of steam to mechanical energy. Represents 30% of the total
> heat charge invested. Much simpler turbine design -- much simpler!!
>
> Now the exhaust from this turbine is fed to a refrigerant boiler -- where
> we can recover another good amount of btu's -- get the drift??
>
> Using a dual refrigerant cycle -- one to extract from 400 to 212 -- and the
> other (much lower boiling point -- say propane rather than butane) -- to
> extract the latent heat from condensing at 212.
>
> Then yes -- you break the 50% barrier.
>
> And alos get rid of those huge condensers to blow the heat to the skies!
>
> Andries, at the plant you are working at -- do they use Gas Turbines?? And
> if so -- as sole device or as a "topping" device??
>
> Peter / Belize
>
> At 09:50 PM 1/26/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> >Joseph, and List,
> >
> >If you want to learn about large scale producer gas fired large combustion
> >turbines (CT), check out:
> >http://www.gasification.org/98GTC/Gtc00190.pdf
> >http://www.gasification.org/98GTC/Gtc00220.pdf
> >http://www.gasification.org/gtc99150.pdf
> >This is syngas from coal and oil.
> >
> >These links might be of interested as well if you are looking for smaller
> >scale turbines for biomass producer gas. The principles remain.
> >
> >In any case, what you need to look for are turbines fit to burn Low Caloric
> >Value gas. In case of gasturbines burning low CV gas is not quite as easy as
> >it may sound. It is specialized work to arrive at stable flame conditions.
> >
> >Apart from GE in the US, in Europe Siemens is among the suppliers for larger
> >low CV gas fired CT's, in Japan Mitsubishi.
> >
> >A general list of manufacturers is:
> >http://gas-turbines.com/manufa/index.htm
> >but is doesn't seem complete.
> >
> >
> >Andries Weststeijn
> >
> >> ----------
> >> Van:         Joseph FONIO[SMTP:joseph.fonio@oser.net]
> >> Antwoord naar:       gasification@crest.org
> >> Verzonden:   vrijdag 26 januari 2001 11:57
> >> Aan:         gasification@crest.org
> >> Onderwerp:   GAS-L: Gas turbines
> >>
> >> Hello everybody at the gasification list,
> >>
> >> I have heard about gas turbines used with gasification units, but I do not
> >> know any reference of it. Could someone give me examples of gasification
> >> plants using the producer gas in gas turbines ? Are there companies that
> >> develop (or sell) this kind of technologies ?
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> Joseph Fonio
> >>
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>
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