Re: GAS-L: Wasted heat retrieval to electrical power

["Kermit Schlansker" <kssustain@provide.net>]

Hello,

      Does anyone know if the mercury vapor- steam combined cycle power
plant is dead or why? It has the advantage of permitting lower pressures at
high temperatures and high mass vapor which should permit simpler turbines.
It would seem to me that confining the vapor in a closed cycle system so
that none was lost would not be a difficult problem. I see nothing about
such systems except in older texts.

                                 Kermit Schlansker
-----Original Message-----
From: Weststeijn A <A.Weststeijn@epz.nl>
To: 'Crest Gasification List' <gasification@crest.org>
Cc: '= Peter Singfield' <snkm@btl.net>
Date: Monday, February 19, 2001 6:41 AM
Subject: FW: GAS-L: Wasted heat retrieval to electrical power


>
>> Hi Peter,    ********Corrected version********
>>
>(oophs, need to correct my temperature conversion Fahrenheit-Centigrade
visa
>versa and my related conclusion as to the highest potential S/H temperature
>in degrees F)
>
>1400 F = 760 C
>1290 F = 700 C
>1250 F = 677 C
>1110 F = 600 C
>1080 F = 580 C
>
>> Peter Singfield[SMTP:snkm@btl.net]
>> maandag 19 februari 2001 1:00
>>
>> Andries made a comment (probably off list) regarding 1250 F (677 C) being
>> the
>> practical upper limit for super heated steam --
>> Andries -- take a look at:
>> http://www.nedo.go.jp/3color-e/shinene/shoene-4.html
>> 1300 to 1400 "C"
>>
>> Peter, I commented on superheated steam temperatures in boilers. That's
>> about steel.
>A really quite high, but still realistic present day S/H steam condition is
>1080 F (580 C). There might be an example found of 1110 F (600 C)
somewhere,
>but that's it.
>
>> The link is on ceramic materials for GT's. Different ball game.
>Ceramic materials are not really ment for supercritical pressure piping.
>
>As to the S/H steam temperatures in boilers:
>> You consistently continu to refer to 1400 F (= 760 C) as "normal" for
>> boilers.
>> I keep pointing out that this is an very advanced temperature condition.
>> And certainly is not generally introduced state of the art.
>>
>> There is an European R&D project going on -including large boiler and
>> turbine manufacturers- with the aim of 700 Centigrade (1290 F) S/H life
>> steam temperature for large boilers to be reached in about 2010-2015! May
>> that tell you something.
>>
>> Don't keep mentioning 1400 F (760 C) S/H steam as a piece of cake for
>> boilers and turbines. It isn't.
>> It's all about transition to austenitic steels, having to qualify from
>> step 1 in this service, and making for very expensive materials.
>> It is NOT the cheap and easy solution -simply copied from another
>> application into boiler use- you are looking for.
>>
>> From a different perspective:
>> -Potential:
>> If you use 1400 F (760 C) as the future POTENTIAL of the classic
>> steam-water cycle as compared with the POTENTIAL for refrigerant cycles,
>> there is no basis for this high a temperature yet, as I know off. With
>> respect to future potential you could go up as high as 1290 F (700 C) due
>> to work going on in Europe and Japan. I don't know about the US.
>> -Price:
>> The high costs of austinitic boiler tubes and life steam piping may give
>> "cold" cycles (ran on refrigerant) more "financial room" to play with for
>> break even.
>> -Efficiency:
>> But the nett efficiency of these advanced steam-water cycles (thermal
>> energy into electricity) is estimated to be around 50% and that will have
>> to be met by these refrigerant cycles as well.
>>
>>
>> best regards,
>> Andries
>>
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