Re: GAS-L: Gas "topping" turbines

["Antonio G. P. Hilst" <antonio.hilst@merconet.com.br>]

Thanks  all of you for answers/comments on Kalina's cicle and related efficiency
promoting.
I really learned a lot and I will do my best to convey them in work in Brasil.
One detail: ammonia is one of the most used chemicals in industry and by farmers
at large. So  amazes (is this a corect/clear english word?) me all the health and
safety wories.

Antonio Hilst

Peter Singfield wrote:

> At 01:31 PM 1/29/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> >Dear List,
> >
> >With respect to the Kalina cycle and "gas turbines",
> >
> >I find:
> >
> ****************snipped****************
>
> >7) no good story yet as how to deal with the (unfriendly) ammonia atmosphere
> >in which the full cycle operates. This has severe repercussions from an OSHA
> >point of view and will require the full boiler+htex+turbine+condenser train
> >to operate under a stringent technical and operational regime. This is not
> >to be taken lightly! One reference quotes the working fluid as no less than
> >70% ammonia concentration.
> >
>
> Hi Andries;
>
> Yes - rather a complicated system to put into operation. A modern high
> quality steam boiler is a "given". "Given" meaning it exists -- is produced
> on a regular basis -- is economically feasible and is well "debugged".
>
> We can certainly say the same of steam turbines designed for high quality
> steam.
>
> A topping turbine is simply that same device with the last few stages omitted.
>
> Refrigerant turbines are also well developed.
>
> Duel working fluids systems will bring the same increase in over all
> efficiencies -- probably more so -- are simple to work with.
>
> The only difference is though the systems exist independent of each other
> -- no one has considered joining both together.
>
> There is certainly no reason why it would not work.
>
> Further -- this style system would be extremely easy to proto-type. Simply
> order the off the shelf components.
>
> As example -- I took a look at:
>
> http://www.heuristicengineering.com/
>
> Heuristic Engineering Inc. Waste-Disposal /Energy recovery systems
>
> Here we are shown a gasifier that can operate on up to 65% humidity biomass
> as fuel.
>
> I have already researched high quality steam boilers - gas fired. These are
> also a "given" -- no problem ordering one up for any size or steam quality
> -- and they are economical compared to other boilers of the same ratings.
>
> The steam turbine is another "given" -- I know one manufacturer that can
> supply in sizes from 100 kw to 10 megawatt.
>
> The refrigerant cycle boiler/turbine is also an off the shelf item. Just
> check out the Geothermal power industry.
>
> To me -- this is a simple process to implement.
>
> Yet I can not find any references to any such attempt to date.
>
> For small scale applications -- say 50 kw and less.
>
> A topping steam piston engine capable on operating with back pressure (I
> have that design) coupled with a refrigerant working fluid steam piston
> engine (I have that design as well)
>
> I believe 30% over all efficiencies easily -- and possible breaking of 50%
> efficiency level.
>
> Flow diagram by text:
>
> Biomass gasifier capable of using high humidity fuels. No complications of
> drying fuel -- or even fuel "conditioning" -- such as pelletizing. Along
> the lines of the first reference in this com --
>
> http://www.heuristicengineering.com/
> Heuristic Engineering Inc. Waste-Disposal /Energy recovery systems
>
> But smaller scale.
>
> Coupled to a very high steam quality gas fired boiler -- say 600 PSI with
> 1400 F super heat.
>
> This powering a small steam piston engine which "tops" from 400 PSI 1400 F
> (very superheated) to 250 PSI 400 F saturated steam as exhaust.
>
> This exhaust steam "condensed" by refrigerant boiler (butane) operating at
> just under 400 F. The exhaust from this would be warm water -- just above
> ambient temperature. Plus waste heat from the butane condenser -- at around
> 20 F above ambient.
>
> We have went over the math modeling. Under these conditions -- very high
> over all efficiencies are possible.
>
> This is how we can squeeze the most mechanical energy, for the least
> investment, with the greatest reliability -- from heat energy. Small or
> large scale systems.
>
> A system of 500 to 1 megawatt can be based on turbines as I have a
> manufacturer for both the steam and refrigerant working fluids in that size
> range.
>
> The refrigerant boiler is a standard industrial unit for building
> centralized air conditioning systems -- another off the shelf item. That
> includes the heat exchangers, circulation pumps and the cooling tower.
>
> Everything exists -- it is simply a matter of connecting them together.
> Some pipe fitting if you will.
>
> This would be a small, fast, research project of minor investment. I feel
> this would address all the present problems concerned with biomass
> gasification.
>
> Fuel conditioning, gas cleaning -- would no longer be required. Loss in
> efficiencies in these processes would no longer be occurring.
>
> Over all efficiencies greatly enhanced.
>
> And from 500 kw to any size!!
>
> What more??
>
> Peter Singfield / Belize
>
> >Andries Weststeijn
> >
> >The Gasification List is sponsored by
> >USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> >and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
> >
> >Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> >http://www.nrel.gov/bioam/
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> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> >
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrel.gov/bioam/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml