Re: GAS-L: Gas "topping" turbines

[Luiz Alberto Magri <luizmagri@yahoo.com>]

Antonio,

There is no reason for amazement. Amonia is very
dangerous and can easily kill you by choking. Please
be careful with this product.

Magri
Rio de Janeiro


--- "Antonio G. P. Hilst"
<antonio.hilst@merconet.com.br> wrote:
> Thanks  all of you for answers/comments on Kalina's
> cicle and related efficiency
> promoting.
> I really learned a lot and I will do my best to
> convey them in work in Brasil.
> One detail: ammonia is one of the most used
> chemicals in industry and by farmers
> at large. So  amazes (is this a corect/clear english
> word?) me all the health and
> safety wories.
> 
> Antonio Hilst
> 
> Peter Singfield wrote:
> 
> > At 01:31 PM 1/29/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> > >Dear List,
> > >
> > >With respect to the Kalina cycle and "gas
> turbines",
> > >
> > >I find:
> > >
> > ****************snipped****************
> >
> > >7) no good story yet as how to deal with the
> (unfriendly) ammonia atmosphere
> > >in which the full cycle operates. This has severe
> repercussions from an OSHA
> > >point of view and will require the full
> boiler+htex+turbine+condenser train
> > >to operate under a stringent technical and
> operational regime. This is not
> > >to be taken lightly! One reference quotes the
> working fluid as no less than
> > >70% ammonia concentration.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Andries;
> >
> > Yes - rather a complicated system to put into
> operation. A modern high
> > quality steam boiler is a "given". "Given" meaning
> it exists -- is produced
> > on a regular basis -- is economically feasible and
> is well "debugged".
> >
> > We can certainly say the same of steam turbines
> designed for high quality
> > steam.
> >
> > A topping turbine is simply that same device with
> the last few stages omitted.
> >
> > Refrigerant turbines are also well developed.
> >
> > Duel working fluids systems will bring the same
> increase in over all
> > efficiencies -- probably more so -- are simple to
> work with.
> >
> > The only difference is though the systems exist
> independent of each other
> > -- no one has considered joining both together.
> >
> > There is certainly no reason why it would not
> work.
> >
> > Further -- this style system would be extremely
> easy to proto-type. Simply
> > order the off the shelf components.
> >
> > As example -- I took a look at:
> >
> > http://www.heuristicengineering.com/
> >
> > Heuristic Engineering Inc. Waste-Disposal /Energy
> recovery systems
> >
> > Here we are shown a gasifier that can operate on
> up to 65% humidity biomass
> > as fuel.
> >
> > I have already researched high quality steam
> boilers - gas fired. These are
> > also a "given" -- no problem ordering one up for
> any size or steam quality
> > -- and they are economical compared to other
> boilers of the same ratings.
> >
> > The steam turbine is another "given" -- I know one
> manufacturer that can
> > supply in sizes from 100 kw to 10 megawatt.
> >
> > The refrigerant cycle boiler/turbine is also an
> off the shelf item. Just
> > check out the Geothermal power industry.
> >
> > To me -- this is a simple process to implement.
> >
> > Yet I can not find any references to any such
> attempt to date.
> >
> > For small scale applications -- say 50 kw and
> less.
> >
> > A topping steam piston engine capable on operating
> with back pressure (I
> > have that design) coupled with a refrigerant
> working fluid steam piston
> > engine (I have that design as well)
> >
> > I believe 30% over all efficiencies easily -- and
> possible breaking of 50%
> > efficiency level.
> >
> > Flow diagram by text:
> >
> > Biomass gasifier capable of using high humidity
> fuels. No complications of
> > drying fuel -- or even fuel "conditioning" -- such
> as pelletizing. Along
> > the lines of the first reference in this com --
> >
> > http://www.heuristicengineering.com/
> > Heuristic Engineering Inc. Waste-Disposal /Energy
> recovery systems
> >
> > But smaller scale.
> >
> > Coupled to a very high steam quality gas fired
> boiler -- say 600 PSI with
> > 1400 F super heat.
> >
> > This powering a small steam piston engine which
> "tops" from 400 PSI 1400 F
> > (very superheated) to 250 PSI 400 F saturated
> steam as exhaust.
> >
> > This exhaust steam "condensed" by refrigerant
> boiler (butane) operating at
> > just under 400 F. The exhaust from this would be
> warm water -- just above
> > ambient temperature. Plus waste heat from the
> butane condenser -- at around
> > 20 F above ambient.
> >
> > We have went over the math modeling. Under these
> conditions -- very high
> > over all efficiencies are possible.
> >
> > This is how we can squeeze the most mechanical
> energy, for the least
> > investment, with the greatest reliability -- from
> heat energy. Small or
> > large scale systems.
> >
> > A system of 500 to 1 megawatt can be based on
> turbines as I have a
> > manufacturer for both the steam and refrigerant
> working fluids in that size
> > range.
> >
> > The refrigerant boiler is a standard industrial
> unit for building
> > centralized air conditioning systems -- another
> off the shelf item. That
> > includes the heat exchangers, circulation pumps
> and the cooling tower.
> >
> > Everything exists -- it is simply a matter of
> connecting them together.
> > Some pipe fitting if you will.
> >
> > This would be a small, fast, research project of
> minor investment. I feel
> > this would address all the present problems
> concerned with biomass
> > gasification.
> >
> > Fuel conditioning, gas cleaning -- would no longer
> be required. Loss in
> > efficiencies in these processes would no longer be
> occurring.
> >
> > Over all efficiencies greatly enhanced.
> >
> > And from 500 kw to any size!!
> >
> > What more??
> >
> > Peter Singfield / Belize
> >
> > >Andries Weststeijn
> > >
> > >The Gasification List is sponsored by
> > >USDOE BioPower Program
> http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> > >and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
> > >
> > >Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> 
=== message truncated ===


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