GAS-L: small biomass power plants

["Albrecht Kaupp" <ali@kaupp.net>]

Hallo, following with interest the discussion about this.

"But there is no question high efficiency "micro" power plants operating on
 biomass can't be supplied -- and at a capital cost well within reason.
 Such a $300 US per kwh."

We better get the units right. Does this mean US$ 300 per kW installed
capacity??? We are presently seriously thinking about using the newest steam
engine technology (www.spilling.de) again in the range of 150 kW to 2 MW
power. The best economical size seems to be 350 kW, however turn key cost
are much higher in the range of US$ 600.The engine is now oil free. That has
been our problem 10 years ago with such an engine.
Of course, there is always "boy scout" technology available made from tin
cans,etc. The last naive effort in this field, I heard about was a micro
steam turbine system of 5 kW with an overall efficiency from wood to power
of 1.6 %. A marvelous idea to further deplete natural resources. The notion
of "waste biomass" does not exist anyway. As soon as people discover a use
any delivered "waste" becomes pretty expensive.

Albrecht Kaupp
Senior Advisor
Indo-German Energy Efficiency and Environment Project, IGEEP
21 Jor Bagh, New Delhi 110 003, India
Tel +91-11-4603832-6 or +91-11-6864867 to 68
Fax +91-11-4603831 or +1-801-340-7905 (USA)
email: ali@kaupp.net





> ----------
> Van: 	Peter Singfield[SMTP:snkm@btl.net]
> Verzonden: 	woensdag 23 mei 2001 18:26
> Aan: 	gasification@crest.org
> Onderwerp: 	RE: GAS-L: Re: Gasification and Carbon management -- First
> National Conference on Carbon...
>
>
> Dear List Members;
>
> I see no problems with developing a high efficiency biomass power plant of
> 500 and less kw capacity.
>
> I do not see any one interested in proceeding in this direction though. As
> all the big money is investing in the big power plants.
>
> For reasons pointed out in the past postings -- this means we will never
> swing from coal to biomass production. Not this turn of the wheel anyway.
>
> Well, enjoy yourselves while it lasts -- and that should be for at least
> another 400 years -- according to world coal reserves -- and if global
> warming due to fossil fuels emissions is not true -- and if we don't greed
> up consumption rates and deplete all the coal in 50 years!
>
> But there is no question high efficiency "micro" power plants operating on
> biomass can't be supplied -- and at a capital cost well within reason.
> Such
> a $300 US per kwh.
>
> Any doubts?? Just come here and stand over my shoulder while I rebuild my
> boats 15 HP, four stroke, Honda outboard motor. How they managed to do all
> of this for $1500 US retail!!
>
> Mass production!!
>
> You can mass produce small power plants along the same line as Honda makes
> these outboards -- but you can never mass produce giant power plants!!
>
> We have the technology -- but we lack the will. Simple as that folks.
>
> Until we can change our attitudes regarding big power and big grids being
> the only way -- we will not be reducing coal burning. Simple as that!
>
>
> Peter Singfield / Belize
>
>
> At 06:16 PM 5/23/2001 +0200, you wrote:
> >Dear List members,
> >
> >With respect to Harry Parker's statement, as commented upon by Tom Reed:
> >
> >> 	.   Only coal can supply these very  large-scale gasifiers.  Biomass
> >> is best used for smaller-scale boiler fuel applications if economic.
> >>
> >This sounds to me like large-scale gasifiers are a purpose in itself.  I
> >wouldn't know why biomass couldn't feed equally large gasifiers (as soon
> as
> >they work well).
> >What's more: biomass gasifiers (to make any dent at all) will HAVE to be
> >big, just to physically handle the low energy density /high volume fuel
> >stream.
> >
> >Fact of the matter is: coal gasifiers need to be big because they are so
> >expensive (very high temp, 1500-1600 Centigrade, very expensive oxygen
> >plant). So, apart from their potentially higher efficiency due to co-gen
> >(discussed a few days ago) they simply will need the economy of scale to
> pay
> >in competition with classic boilers.
> >
> >This economy of scale is what will be needed for biomass just as well,
> >either gasified, CFB-burned, grate-fired, pulverized and cofired, or
> >otherwise.
> >With due respect for initiatives at all capacity sizes: to make a
> noticeably
> >contribution in the world wide CO2 situation, high volumes of biomass
> will
> >need to be substituted for a proportion of the world-wide coal usage.
> >Limiting biomass usage to "smaller-scale boilers" fuel applications (as
> the
> >statement says) is simply put: too expensive and by no means good enough.
> >
> >So I would rather turn the argument around: coal will need big gasifiers
> (to
> >be viable), but big gasifiers will not be limited to coal.
> >
> >regards,
> >Andries Weststeijn
> >
> >> This mirrors the WWII experience in which the German synthetic fuel
> >> industry
> >> used coal - but the civilians used wood gasifiers for trucks, cars,
> buses.
> >>
> >> Toward the end of the war the German's hauled their tanks to the front
> >> lines
> >> using wood gasifiers.... then converted to gasoline/diesel for battle.
> >>
> >> I think we can learn from this, but I hope we won't need WWIII to do
> it.
> >>
> >> TOM REED
> >>
> >
> >-
> >Gasification List Archives:
> >http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
> >
> >Gasification List Moderator:
> >Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation,  Reedtb2@cs.com
> >www.webpan.com/BEF
> >
> >Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> >-
> >Other Gasification Events and Information:
> >http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> >
> >
>
> -
> Gasification List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation,  Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
>
> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Gasification Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>

-
Gasification List Archives:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/

Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation,  Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
Other Gasification Events and Information:
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/



-
Gasification List Archives:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/

Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation,  Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
Other Gasification Events and Information:
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/