Re: GAS-L: small biomass power plants

[Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>]

At 08:07 AM 5/25/2001 +0530, you wrote:
>Hallo, following with interest the discussion about this.
>
>"But there is no question high efficiency "micro" power plants operating on
> biomass can't be supplied -- and at a capital cost well within reason.
> Such a $300 US per kwh."


>
>We better get the units right. Does this mean US$ 300 per kW installed
>capacity??? 


Yes -- $300 US per kwh for plants of 50 kw and up. That would be $15,000 US.

Now tell me -- I am very out of touch here in Belize -- Central America.
What is the price of a new family economy car these days??

Think of all the technology in there. Even to the O2 sensor! Look at the
complicated devices involved. Transmission, differential, CV joints,
alternator, starter, cooling system, and then the very nice internal
combustion engines.

I consider them 50 KW class. And can't understand why the mind set can't
follow that if a 50KW car can be made -- why not a 50 kw biomass
"converter" be made for the same price -- or less!

But only if massed produced!! Only for a market of 1000 unites per day for
the rest of eternity. And I believe that market exists for that price! The
entire globe would be the market place! Especially 3rd world.

I do not expect this revolutionary concept to occur in Western World -- but
maybe China, India, Brazil -- not to mention modern industrial power houses
such as Japan, Korea -- and even Taiwan -- any which of have the
infrastructure, the funds, and the technology to do such -- if they were so
inclined!


We are presently seriously thinking about using the newest steam
>engine technology (www.spilling.de) again in the range of 150 kW to 2 MW
>power. The best economical size seems to be 350 kW, however turn key cost
>are much higher in the range of US$ 600.The engine is now oil free. That has
>been our problem 10 years ago with such an engine.

Yes -- I have been looking over their WWW site:

http://www.spilling.de/uk/index-biomass.htm

Nice devices but far to expensive.

>Of course, there is always "boy scout" technology available made from tin
>cans,etc. The last naive effort in this field, I heard about was a micro
>steam turbine system of 5 kW with an overall efficiency from wood to power
>of 1.6 %. A marvelous idea to further deplete natural resources. The notion
>of "waste biomass" does not exist anyway. As soon as people discover a use
>any delivered "waste" becomes pretty expensive.

If you a believer in high efficiencies -- such as I most certainly am --
you will quickly realize that steam power plants of any design can never be
down sized  -- for any form of reasonable costs -- to get anywhere near the
efficiencies of the large power plants. Scale of economics is a true killer
in terms of capital investment -- when dealing with steam power plants. As
many on this list can verify.

However -- there is much potential in using refrigerant vapor cycles -- as
in the Ormat devices:

http://www.ormat.com/

I just received a quote of $400,000 US for a 250 kw unit. Over all
efficiencies -- of the entire plant -- between 12 to 14%

The advantage is the hermetically sealed unit is maintenance and trouble
free -- for 20 years an more. They sent me a picture of this device -- and
I can easily see how one could plant such on the moon and it would run for
twenty years. (solar collectors as heat source)

Anyway -- here is an excerpt form our communications:

1 As heating source you may supply one of the following options, subject to
your convenience and availability at site:

A Thermo oil loop at temperatures inlet  / outlet  of  280 - 200 C
A Pressurized water loop at temperatures inlet  / outlet  of  220 - 150 C
or
Saturated steam flow, say at 10 - 15 bar.
The oil loop will have the advantage that theoretically, you will be able to
operate your system unattended. 

2. The budgetary ex factory price for one OEC complete, including working
fluids and documentation  will be approximately US 400 000.
There will be a certain price reduction for a multiple order.

**********************

Do you have any idea how much more reasonable in costs a fluid heater is
rather than a pressurized steam boiler. Heating thermo oil to a max of 280
C -- with no pressures involved -- simplifies conventional boiler design to
no end!

Thus the Ormat device represents a much greater over all saving in power
plant costs as the price of boiler shoots down.

Pray tell -- what are the "over-all" efficiencies -- that is kw electricity
out over kw value of fuel in -- of the system you are planning??

In order to get even 12% over all efficiencies with steam -- one needs at
least 400C super heat. And that is an expensive boiler. 

Replacing steam with refrigerants - such as butane - for  working fluids
means a great reduction in operating temperatures. That means a much
simpler unit -- and a much better ability to mass produce such.

The exotic materials required for high super heat steam - as presently
demonstrated in large coal power plants - makes mass production of
equivalent small to micro power plants -- economically impractical.

But then -- maybe your biomass is "waste" -- and so -- who cares what over
all efficiencies -- what capital costs???

For my part I "play" with designing a system using presently mass produced
items. Such as refrigeration heat exchangers. Turbo-expanders. Waste heat
boilers. And thermal gasifiers or direct combustion.

All extremely well priced when com[pared to the "exotica" of modern small
biomass power plant technology -- which has priced itself for future self
destruction in the market place.

Turbo expanders are a greatly massed produced item. A Turbo Expander is
used on most large truck engines these days -- the diesel engine
turbo-charger.

For many years there has been a steady development. I am quite surprised at
the present state of the art.

There is no question that heat exchangers of the size and duty required are
available, durable, and priced right.

Waste heat boilers are extremely economic single pass -- flash tube --
boilers. These would couple directly to any thermal gasifier. They are mass
produced for industry - I doubt if any diesel power plant on the planet
does not have one -- or will be getting one.

Already Ormat is adapting its units to operate on waste heat from exhaust
boilers. A very easy way to pick up some reliable extra power production
from any existing IC motor power plant running any fuel.

Yes -- I see a 50 kw biomass power plant selling for $300 KW
($15,000)capital costs. Certainly not today, and probably not tomorrow --
but someday.

I'll have a complete design together using industrial off the shelf
components for a 200 kw rice husk biomass fueled power plant soon.

I plan to easily stay under the $1,000 per kw cost -- and expect to get at
least 22% over all plant efficiencies. And that just building one unit!

I believe it reasonable to assume that prices could be dropped by slightly
more than 2/3 with orders of -- say -- 500 units per day.

This may seem impossible to you now -- but unless we do manage such -- 3rd
world will not be converting to biomass power anytime soon -- if ever.

Further -- according to my sources in India -- which are in regards to
quotations for their services supplying a 200 kw rice husk power plant --
$300 per kwh is their goal -- and indeed -- their price.

Tell me -- are these "boy-scouts" as well??

Are you going to demonstrate the high technology of Western Civilization by
installing a 350 kw plant where just the price of the engine will be over
$2000 per kwh once installed??

My -- how out of touch with reality these modern nations are becoming ---

Come - Come My Friend !!!

Conceptions
Are but receptions
Of our Fantasies

Which can be
The monopoly
Of our fears

Then -- what of reality ???
Do we banish with a cheer
All our feasibility ???

Oh !!
Comfort me
My fantasy

All is not right!
Feel my fright
Of this!!
Our cold reality



Peter Singfield
COROGEN
Executive Director
Xaibe Village
Corozal District
Belize, Central America
Tel 501-4-35213
E-mail: snkm@btl.net

>Albrecht Kaupp
>Senior Advisor
>Indo-German Energy Efficiency and Environment Project, IGEEP
>21 Jor Bagh, New Delhi 110 003, India
>Tel +91-11-4603832-6 or +91-11-6864867 to 68
>Fax +91-11-4603831 or +1-801-340-7905 (USA)
>email: ali@kaupp.net


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