Re: [Fwd: GAS-L: gasifier]

[Harmon Seaver <hseaver@cybershamanix.com>]

Peter Singfield wrote:

> Hello again Harmon;
>
> Well -- first of all -- you have to figure 30% diesel --

       No you don't. Not at all. You can use gasoline engines (much more common
in the US in the first place) or you can use diesel and just run barely enough
diesel to cause ignition. I know how to do that, I've worked on enough diesels I
guess.
       Also we have an extremely plentiful supply of waste vegetable oil here
(fryer oil) which is free for the taking. Restaurants have to pay to have it
hauled, in fact. Turn it into biodiesel or simply filter it, heat the tank, and
run it straight.
        Free fuel, at any rate.

> These systems run about 16% over-all efficiencies when in this mode.
>
> The 30% diesel cost will come out to more than the 6 cents -- probably.
>

       Forget all that. I wouldn't pay a penny for diesel.

>
> Ergo -- get a bigger diesel -- convert to run on pure producer gas -- to
> make up for the derating.

       Right -  used engines are cheap. I can even get 7600cc diesels new surplus
for around $1000, or less. Or pick up good gasoline engines for a lot less. For
that matter, I've got a a couple of 4300cc long stroke 6 cyl. engines sitting
around that run fine.
      But actually I'm more interested in a good steady source of cheap engines
that could be used. Probably rebuilding engines from the junk yard is the best
idea.

> We have a real expert at that on this list. Tom T. But he does this with
> large systems.
>
> If I was Tom -- and with what you mention below -- I would be getting real
> interested in importing India gasifiers and those larger old style Listers.

       Somehow that doesn't quite work out economically. A 20KW gasifier (no
engine or generator) for $4200 plus another $1-2K for shipping? I'd bet you could
find people here would make them for less. Not to mention the *huge* supply of
used engines sitting around. And other parts
     Think recycle.


> Would be no problem to squeeze 30 kwh out of such a system -- and very
> reliable.

     Yup, I could do that with an old chevy pickup engine, a few steel drums,
assorted parts, and a surplus generator.

>
>
> (They come in four cylinder models -- and make more power if they are
> turned faster -- which would be easy -- when your starting at 650 rpm)
>
> You have to put in spark plugs and ignition and timing. Reduce the
> compression somewhat (thicker head gasket or carve the piston -- or both).

      Well, that's easier said than done. Where do you plug in the distributor,
for example? And why reduce the compression? On gasoline engines you  have to
increase it by quite a bit to get good power.

>
>
> Why not use a car motor?? Because it will not live long under this kind of
> use.

      Whooey. Running at 1800 rpm a car engine will last forever.

> Need big bore long stroke.

      No, just long stroke, ideally. But any engine will do, actually. Some are
more optimal than others.  A little 1600cc VW diesel engine is an excellent
choice for a 20KW unit. Why not -- heck, buy two or three, keep them for spares,
they're dirt cheap. Maybe even free -- who else would want them?


> I'm getting awfully tempted to move up to Wisconsin though and do just this
> -- but hear you do not want any more foreigners in your country.

       Well, that's just the crooks in government.

>
> Imagine every farmer in Wisconsin would want one of those.

     Or would build his own once someone told him about it. Amazing how many
farmers have both arc welders and a plentiful supply of old car and truck
engines. Plus a ton of other junk sitting around to build stuff out of.

>
>
> Hey -- maybe we could do this all by internet?
>
> Peter / Belize
>
> At 07:52 PM 11/17/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> >      Oh no, Peter, you aren't aware of what's happening in the US. Many
> (well,
> >some) are passing "net metering" laws that are quite good. Others are
> passing ones
> >that aren't so good, but, for instance, here in Wisconsin, I can set up a
> 20KW
> >rig, which, if fueled by renewables, the utility has to pay me for at retail
> >rates. Nothing over 20KW, tho, but I can pump that 20KW into the grid 24
> hours a
> >day, 365 a year, which is a tidy sum in my pocket. California just jumped
> from
> >10KW to 100KW that they have to buy.  Other states, however, are only
> forcing the
> >power company to let you run the meter backwards, but if you produce more
> than you
> >use in the year, you get no check from them, and it's zeroed out at years
> end.
> >And absurd ripoff, but there you are.
> >    I've not yet quite figured out exactly what my WI utility will pay,
> but at the
> >very least it's $0.0661@KW, so that would be almost $1000 @ month in my
> pocket,
> >plus, of course, I'd run a 30KW, not 20KW so I'd be assured of having all my
> >household power for free as well. Of course I realize there are other costs,
> >repairs, etc. -- but also the utility will buy my additional (above 20KW) at
> >another rate, the same as they pay other utility companies, I believe.
> >
> >Peter Singfield wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Harmon and the rest of this list:
> >>
> >> This Url demonstrates very clearly how to sell power to the grid and get
> >> top dollar for it.
> >>
> >> http://www.homepower.com/rogues.htm
> >>
> >> Make your personal meter run backward -- negate your bill!!
> >>
> >> As in run your gasifier power plant a few hours per day -- run the meter
> >> backwards -- then use grid the rest of the time.
> >> Peter Singfield in Belize Central America -- where power costs 18 cents US
> >> per kwh.
> >>
> >
> >      And I think my brother in New York pays over 16 cents -- but here
> again, I'm
> >not sure how much of that is for the "electricity" and how much is the "wire"
> >charge, and the "surcharge" and the "added" charge and all the other bs
> they stick
> >you with -- that you won't be getting back when they pay you.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Harmon Seaver
> >CyberShamanix
> >http://www.cybershamanix.com
> >
> >
> >
>
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--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com



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