Re: GAS-L: Fuel Cells -- ethanol -- reforming natural gas

[Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>]

To all;

Some may be wondering what a discussion of H2 for Fuel cells is doing on a
gasification mail list.

By now it should be a "given" that production of H2 at present is dependent
on gasification/reforming technologies.

I wish to further remind listers. Fuel cells are operational by other
propellants -- such as natural gas, ethanol and methanol.

In these cases -- the gasification/reforming process is occurring as part
of the fuel cell power plant.

We covered this topic in some detain at this list a few months back.

Personally -- I to feel methanol is the right fuel for this. But we have a
huge "green" segment saying no!

And if the past has anything to say about all this -- 

Now -- one more question to ponder.

If indeed methanol is the ideal fuel -- would it not be of greater
expedience to cultivate woody biomass (as in tree plantations) rather than
food crops (For ethanol production) for fuel??

Is the conversion of woody biomass, by gasification/reformation, more
expedient than fermentation and distillation of food crops??

Considering the cost of raising trees over the cost of raising food crops.

(Or any other growing biomass suitable for this purpose -- such as grasses,
weeds, etc)

And try not to ignore the global need for food!

If not at present -- then in the future -- and especially should natural
events disturb present food production -- even though temporary.

In short folks -- becoming dependent on food crops for transportation fuels
could result in a lot of walking being required should even a minor global
crop failure occur.

Of course -- for the present -- natural gas will more than fill any real
requirements. 

Also is it fair to say -- natural gas conversion to methanol can fill this
need more economically than through ethanol production from food plants??

If the present leader of the world's most powerful nation is promoting fuel
cells -- should not this list be concerned with the options??

(Or is this all just political rhetoric??)

Peter Singfield / Belize

At 09:31 AM 1/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: 
>>>>
To:  CAVM et al. Ref.:  Below      Quite true. I said  that hydrogen "can
be" made from a wade variety of raw materials -  Essentially from anything
that can be gasified to an H2+CO syngas. But as Tom  Reed  rightly points
out, this is still quite expensive and  impractical.   As far as I know,
all commercial hydrogen is  currently made by large scale reforming of
natural gas, though even coal  gasification - probably on an even larger
scale - looks promising. But getting  the stuff to end users is clearly
expensive and often impractical.  Major  current uses are large scale
hydrogenation of heavy petroleum fractions and  vegetable oils, and
launching space shuttles. The microchip industry is a  big, distributed
demand for small per-site amounts.  The mandated  premise of
hydrogen-fuel-cell vehicles is that ALL vehicles may eventually  get
expensive and impractical to operate,  either due to inevitable  depletion
of petroleum reserves or human-imposed (geopolitical or  environmental)
constraints.
                            Bill  Hauserman

               ----- Original Message -----  From: <CAVM@aol.com> To:
<gasification@crest.org> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:51  PM Subject:
Re: GAS-L: Fuel Cells -- ethanol --  reforming natural gas 
> In a message dated 1/10/2002  10:30:08 AM Central Standard Time, 
> hauserman@corpcomm.net writes:
>  
> << Hydrogen can be made from a huge variety of  primary raw  materials, 
> including biomass and garbage, as well as coal and "surplus"  natural
gas. >>
> 
> 
> I am very interested in this  comment.  I thought the production of
hydrogen 
> was expensive and  impractical except for certain uses.
> 
> -
> Gasification  List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>  
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy  Foundation,  <mailto:Reedtb2@cs.com>Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
> List-Post:  <mailto:gasification@crest.org>
>  List-Help: <mailto:gasification-help@crest.org>
>  List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gasification-unsubscribe@crest.org>
>  List-Subscribe: <mailto:gasification-subscribe@crest.org>
>  
> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
>  -
> Other Gasification Events and Information:
> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>  http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ 




-
Gasification List Archives:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/

Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation,  Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF
List-Post: <mailto:gasification@crest.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gasification-help@crest.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gasification-unsubscribe@crest.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gasification-subscribe@crest.org>

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
Other Gasification Events and Information:
http://www.bioenergy2002.org
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/