Re: GAS-L: Fuel Cells -- ethanol -- reforming natural gas

[Arnt Karlsen <arnt@c2i.net>]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:21:47 -0800 (PST)
jerry dycus <jerry5335@yahoo.com> wrote in
<20020123032147.32025.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com>:

>       Hi Joacim and All,
> --- Joacim Persson <joacim@ymex.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > > ..at 25-35% efficiency, the gasoline and diesel
> > engines _are_ obsolete.
>      While  these can develop this kind of eff in
> steady state running in a car the eff is more like 7%
> of the fuel's energy actually drives the rear wheels. 
>      A good EV can get up to 20% eff from the power
> plant fuel to the road. 

..with todays power plants, agreed. 

> > 
> > Ehum. Not comparable. A flywheel is a storage of
> > (close to?) 100% pure work.
> > Ottos and diesels are heat motors. Heat is never
> > 100% work, you know. ;)
>       But where does the flywheels energy come from?

..from "my" coal + MSW fired gasifier fuel cell loop, 
eventually at 93%.

> What eff was it made at? While flywheels sound good
> they have many problems in a car.
> > 
> > Beats a chemical battery though?
>     Not in eff or cost. A lead/acid battery can charge
> 
> elect in /elect out at 95/ 97% eff and with a rundown

..what???  Usually I hear around 60-70%.

> of 4 months while the flywheel will lose all it's
> energy in 2 or 3 days and would be lucky to get 92%
> eff not counting where the electricity comes from to

..I use Jack Bitterly's flywheels as my baseline.  96%.

> charge both. 


..combining these with a superconducting grid, and a flywheel 
"gas" station, ->  .93 * .96 * .96 = .857  
This of course disregards mining and (coal and MSW) transport losses.


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with kind regards from Arnt...  ;-)

  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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