GAS-L: Hackers are like gasifier tinkerers.

[Joel Florian <joflo@yifan.net>]

Hear Hear!,

Hackers and virus makers are like the tinkerers who build low-budget 
gasifiers in their backyards.  Some of the tinkerers have an intuitive 
understanding of gasification that surpasses researchers and CEO's with 
huge credentials.  I'd be willing to bet that there are 20 or so people on 
this list (I don't claim to be one of them) who could build a gasifier out 
of scrap and mass-produced parts  and then run an engine off the gas -- and 
you could do in less time, space, and budget than any of the high-profile 
projects we've discussed in the last years.  Our society depends on 
"modern" technology  but the average American has much less common sense 
than his grandfather.  Most of us think we are smart if we seek the 
opinions of some overpaid ,nationally recognized, "expert".   Unless our 
society quits worshiping "modern experts" and gets back to the common sense 
approach of doing what works, every innovator will become a "threat to our 
nation."  That means those of us who are interested in 
gasification.   Anyone who thinks something can be done better is a threat 
to those who profit from the way it is being done now.  Anyone who thinks 
that their "good" idea is going to bring the world to their feet is very 
naive.  Ideas are rarely judged on their own merit, don't forget about 
money, politics, personal ambition.   For every innovation, there are 
dozens of people who oppose it merely because their livehood or reputation 
is based on the status quo.


I believe we as Americans face a bigger danger than terrorism -- our own 
stupidity.   To give you an example:  without statistics to verify this, I 
bet more people have died in the last year from drunk driving than from 
terrorist attacks.   The government can't legislate stupidity.  I don't 
believe that anything can be totally foolproof -- fools are the best 
innovators around.

I suspect most hackers write viruses in Linux and then maybe have a windows 
box only for testing purposes....

Length of use does not justify a bad habit.  Credentials -- whether 
education, experience, or government support -- do not change stupidity 
into something better.  You can shave a dog, paint it a different color, 
dress it in a three-piece suit and stuff a cell phone and PDA into it's 
pockets, but it's still a dog.

Let's quit barking up the wrong trees and get on with gasification.

Joel Florian
Alaska

PS  I've got to bring a couple of walking floor trailers up to Alaska to 
haul chips for our boiler.  Shipping seems to be pretty expensive.  Anyone 
have any suggestions?




At 10:49 AM 8/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 10:07:11AM -0600, Tom Reed wrote:
> > Dear Harmon:
> >
> > Thanks for the flame.
> >
> > Your same logic should make it unnecessary to spend one dollar of tax money
> > to catch and punish murderers, robbers and CEOs.  The problem will take 
> care
> > of itself!
>
>
>    No, it's not the same at all. Viruses (and hacking) are a technological
>problem, and we have (and have had for a long time now) the technological
>solutions for it. I seriously think all laws against hacking and viruses 
>should
>be abolished. I cheer wholeheartedly every single virus that comes out, and
>would never lift a finger to stop their spread -- and I'm a professional 
>systems
>admin, remember.
>    I think viruses are just great. They don't bother me. Prosecuting virues
>writers is like prosecuting Ralph Nader for pointing out the serious safety
>defects in cars.
>    As I recall, it's been pointed out to you a number of times by myself and
>others that you are using a defective product. Wake up, Tom! There are many
>quite usable mail readers even for windows that don't have much of a virus
>problem. You are using the worst one on the market and then crying for the
>government to make it all better.
>    That's like all the idiot farmers crying for subsidies and crop price
>supports, when the problem is they've been suckered by the ag industry. 
>Just as
>there are much better, safer, and vastly more efficient and cost effective
>methods of farming, so are there much better ways of computing. Have you seen
>the latest blurbs from Intel -- they now are coming out with a 3GHZ 
>processor --
>isn't that wonderful? For what? I'm still running a 266mhz processor -- 
>entirely
>fast enough, but then I run efficient software, eh? And my machine is not just
>my desktop box, but also a firewall, webserver, and email server.
>     No Tom, we don't need more fascist government and more repressive 
> laws. We
>need for people to wake up and stop buying defective crap made by a 
>company that
>spends far more on advertising hype than they do on R&D.
>
>
>
> >
> > I still think the punishment should fit the crime and this crime is much
> > larger than any other, but because it is distributed we tolerate it.  If we
> > added up the total costs we would switch from our anti terror war to an 
> anti
> > virus war.
>
>    Well, it's just a "War on Some Terror" just like their disgusting "War on
>Some Drugs". We don't need any more "Wars" on anything, give Peace a 
>chance. The
>solutions for all those problems are well-known and quite easy to 
>implement. The
>problem is that they are all just excuses for power grabs and destroying the
>Constituition, not to mention all the money they make for big 
>corporations, the
>prison/industrial complex and other evil people.
>
> >
> > Tom Reed
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver@cybershamanix.com>
> > To: "Tom Reed" <tombreed@attbi.com>
> > Cc: <editor@RockyMountainNews.com>; <noem@RockyMountainNews.com>; "zhangmi"
> > <zhangmi@biogas.com.cn>; "gasification" <gasification@crest.org>; "Stoves"
> > <Stoves@crest.org>; <Philreed@aol.com>; "Peter Reed" <preed@linboston.com>;
> > "Kevin Reed" <kevin.reed@chhn.com>; "Katherine Cochrane"
> > <kcochrane@earthlink.net>; "Emily Jane Reed" <meyer618@hotmail.com>;
> > "Shivayam Ellis" <shivayam55@hotmail.com>; "Bob Weldon"
> > <bobkarlaweldon@cs.com>; "Pete Salinger" <petes@ma.ultranet.com>; "John
> > Reed" <reed112@juno.com>; "Emily Jane Reed" <618meyer@hotmail.com>; "Pat
> > Duesenberg" <PatDuesenberg@cs.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: Capital Punishment for Virus makers
> >
> >
> > >    I don't think we need anymore penalties for virus makers -- I don't
> > think we
> > > need the government's involvment at all -- left alone, the free market
> > will take
> > > care of the problem. I don't have even the slightest problem with 
> viruses,
> > > except for seeing all the warning messages about them, and I certainly
> > don't
> > > want one penny of my taxes wasted on the government doing anything about
> > them.
> > >   It's quite simple Tom -- you are using a virus magnet for a mail 
> reader,
> > and
> > > an extremely defective operating system. It's an very simple matter for
> > you
> > > to change to a decent mail reader, and wouldn't be all that difficult for
> > you to
> > > change to a real operating system that doesn't get viruses.
> > >    We don't need anymore corporate welfare or draconian laws propping up
> > > defective products. The computer world is a lot like the auto industry --
> > most
> > > people are driving Fords and Chevys, some people drive Audis and
> > Mercedes --
> > > except that in the computer world it costs much less to drive a Mercedes.
> > Go
> > > figure!
> > >    Surely anyone with the technical mindset to design and build gasifiers
> > can
> > > figure out how to install and run an better operating system, eh?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 06:48:47AM -0600, Tom Reed wrote:
> > > > Dear All:
> > > >
> > > > Computer viruses are a terrible, but low level nuisance to all of us
> > computer users.  At least one needs virus protection costing maybe $50/yr,
> > so a tax of $5 billion/year on the 100 million computer users in the US 
> (and
> > a great boon to the virus protectors who have no incentive to stop
> > collecting this tax).  At worst they cause a loss of 10 to 100 hours of 
> time
> > to the 100 million users, a "tax" of 1 to 10 billion hours on computer
> > users.
> > > >
> > > > A lifetime (80 years, 8 disposable hours/day) has 15,000 disposable
> > hours.  So this mischief "murders" (10^9/15,000) 67,000 people a year, far
> > greater than 9/11.
> > > >
> > > > I cana't imagine what joy the vius makers get out of their 
> mischief, but
> > the 67,000 murders and $5 billion should make it a CAPITAL OFFENSE to 
> spread
> > a virus.  Instead, those who are caught are slapped on the wrist.
> > > >
> > > > I hope you will join a national campaign to institute more 
> proportionate
> > penalties for virus bandits.  Lifetime imprisonment WITHOUT COMPUTER ACCESS
> > would be a living hell for them, so lets start with that!
> > > >
> > > >
> > ~~~~~~
> > > > Please forward this to anyone (legislators, pundits, editorial writers
> > etc.) who you think may help with this campaign.
> > > >
> > > > Yours truly,                                     Thomas B. Reed
> > COLORADO
> > >
> > > --
> > > Harmon Seaver
> > > CyberShamanix
> > > http://www.cybershamanix.com
> > >
> >
>
>--
>Harmon Seaver
>CyberShamanix
>http://www.cybershamanix.com
>
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