Re: GAS-L: Engine Experience

[Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>]

At 02:15 PM 9/1/2002 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
>  It might also be that using reciprocating IC engines just isn't a good
idea in
>the long run -- perhaps turbines, especially the Tesla turbine, could well
prove
>to be the most cost effective way to go, and perhaps also with the
addition of
>some steam. 
>

Or --

How about a conventional biomass furnace/boiler and steam turbine??

What purpose gasification??

What difference between gasification and well designed combustion furnace??

What specific advantages are there to going gasification??

The goal is higher over all thermal efficiencies for a reasonable price
with at least the reliability of the system to be replaced -- no??

Tesla turbine superseding the steam turbine??

Seriously -- you joke -- right??

I can detail the problems with steam -- starts with exceptional
temperatures and pressures to get into the right ball park for high
"over-all" efficiencies.

Steam Turbines are only expensive when having to handle those high
temperatures.

You can marry an Ormat refrigerant working fluid turbine system to any
conventional bagasse fired boiler -- end up with double the thermal
efficiencies -- and double the reliability.

Ormat or any geothermal turbine system.

And at half the cost of a "gasifier" --

The name of this game is converting thermal energy in biomass to usable
"power" at an efficient rate -- reliability for extended periods.

I am presently accumulating old style Lister Diesels -- but built new from
India.

6 HP -- 650 RPM -- huge heavy reliable.

I will convert one to a uniflow steam engine operating with butane as
working fluid.

It will be reliable -- 

A simple combustion process is all that will be required.

No special fuel "conditioning" -- such a compressing (pellets) -- sizing
(chipping -- etc) or drying to within special limits for proper operation.

Marry a Hurst boiler to an Ormat -- and forget gasification running IC
engines.

Ormats run 30 years and more -- no maintenance!!

Hurst follows close behind --

Fuel is near anything -- to 55% humidity.

What are you beating your brains over??

Plus -- you can get quotes for all the above in a week or less -- from 100
kw to 10 megs worth of biomass power -- and up and running in less than 8
months!

We do not lack for solutions -- we lack the vision to apply them.

Peter Singfield
Belize

>
>On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 04:45:12AM +1000, Terry Dixon wrote:
>> Dear Tom and All,
>> 
>> Ah ah ah ah !!!  The sobering questioning of hard (and harsh !) reality !
>> Excellent.   The inevitable shift in focus from the R&D perspective to the
>> commercial reality perspective.  I'll be very interested to read the
>> responses to this one.  For me (in the Australian sugar industry context,
>> and I dare say in a similar context for many others), the issues that you
>> question, of annual operating hours and maintenance period hours, are
>> CRUCIAL for commercial reality and viability long term.  Unless
>> gasification can deliver at 4500+ hours, maybe 8000+, continuous (no
>> shutdowns), and overhaul of 8000+ hours, then forget it !!!
>> 
>> Terry Dixon
>> Sugar Research Institute
>> AUSTRALIA
>> 
>> ----- Forwarded by Terry Dixon/SRI on 02/09/2002 04:34 -----
>>
                                          
>>                     "Tom Miles"
                                          
>>                     <tmiles@trmile       To:
<gasification@crest.org>                                          
>>                     s.com>               cc:
                                          
>>                                          Subject:     GAS-L: Engine
Experience                                     
>>                     01/09/2002
                                          
>>                     16:05
                                          
>>
                                          
>>
                                          
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> What has the experience been with engines and gasifiers? What are the
>> maintenace requirements? What is the typical annual use, 2000 hours? Are
>> there any that operate 6000 to 8000 hours per year? What is the expected
>> life? What are the actual maintenance intrevals? What facilities and
>> equipment are necessary for engine maintenance that are different than for
>> automotive or diesel power generation? What engines (make and model) work
>> well: Waukesha? Caterpiller? Lister?
>> 
>> The most used engines for producer gas seem to be modified natural gas or
>> LP engines or diesels that are run as dual fueled. Are oil and air filter
>> change intrevals the same for producer gas as for LP? Every 150 hours? What
>> other maintenance needs to be done?What is the expected engine life
>> compared with actual engine life for LP or duel fueled diesels on producer
>> gas? Can we expect an overhaul with producer gas after 2000 hours? Is
>> engine life 10000 hours? After than what needs to be done?
>> 
>> What has the experience been with converting existing diesels to dual
>> fueled applications? Good? Bad? What works and what doesn't work?
>> 
>> What is a practical genset size? Do the 500 kWe engine-gensets that we have
>> seen promoted actually survive? If you were doing distributed generation at
>> 200 kWe what would you use? Four 50 kWe or larger gensets?
>> 
>> What's the experience with derating? What's the actual power production for
>> an engine rated for LP or diesel? If you were sizing a new system for 200
>> kWe how would you specify the engine?
>> 
>> We understand from the more successful gasifier-genset suppliers that
>> engine applications need a well organized "support system." What support
>> does a 50-200 kWe gasogen need?
>> 
>> Moisture in the fuel. If I make "bad" gas because of wet fuel does the
>> engine care? What kinds of problems result from wet fuel? What range of
>> gasifier fuel moisture can an engine tolerate without excessive derating?
>> 
>> Where does one go for engine experience or information about the use of
>> engines with gasifiers(what documents or web links)? Are there test block
>> benchmark performance tests for producer gas?
>> 
>> These are a lot of ignorant questions from one who is often asked for
>> direction. Until I use a gasogen to keep my own electronics on standby I'll
>> have to rely on the experience of others. Thank you for your contributions.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Tom Miles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>
>-- 
>Harmon Seaver	
>CyberShamanix
>http://www.cybershamanix.com
>
>-
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>
>

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