[GBlist] Legionella & Pontiac Fever & CO poisoning & Scale & Scalding & Standing Loss, NOx Emissions, Disintegrating Dip Tubes, etc.

["Dr. Carmine F. Vasile" <gfx-ch@email.msn.com>]

Ted:  As you are a "NEWBE" you may also be puzzled by discussions of
domestic hot water (DHW) systems and/or "Combis" seemingly limited to
Legionnaires' disease; a multisystem illness, with pneumonia, caused by
Legionella. In contrast, Pontiac fever is a self-limited influenza-like
illness, without pneumonia, that is associated with Legionella.

    Be that as it may, regarding your question: "Are we arguing points from
our IVORY TOWERS or looking for a solution to a particular problem?" .....
There are many problems heretofore discussed on this Forum. Myths &
misinformation abound,  yet not one environmentally friendly, global
solution has emerged to tackle all of these troublesome issues: Legionella &
Pontiac Fever, CO Poisoning, Efficiency-Robbing Scale Deposits, Scalding,
Standing Loss, NOx & CO2 Emissions, Disintegrating Dip Tubes, Air Pollution,
Thermal Pollution of Sewers/Waterways, etc.

    Bion Howard, a respected "frequent-flyer" on this Forum that doesn't
haunt "IVORY TOWERS", recently published a paper entitled "Designing a
"Green Bundle" Water Heating System" (Energy Design Update, March 2001).
Although Bion didn't address underfloor heating, the green-bundle of his
Figure 4 could be expanded to handle this chore.

    Here's Bion's Table 3 FYI:
Table 3 - Economies of a "Green Bundled" Water Heating System (1)
Features                                                     Green Bundle
Conventional Electric
Electric water heater
(2)................................................................$345
Tank less water heater ................................$455
Installation...................................................$85..........
..................$175
Tempering tank ..........................................$175
Polyethylene cross-linked piping..................$-250 (3)
Manifold system..........................................$125
GFX or other heat recovery device (HRD)..$385
HRD installation..........................................$125
Additional fittings.........................................$85
Total cost
...................................................$1,185...................
.....$520
Cost differential ..........................................$665
Operating cost per year...............................$146
$325
Annual savings ...........................................$179
Payback......................................................3.7 years
Payback with solar panel (4)......................10.5 years
1 The analysis is calculated for a single-family home located in Maryland,
with electricity priced at $0 085 per kilowatt-hour The numbers will vary
with different sized homes, labor costs, and energy prices The savings shown
here from green bundling do not include additional savings that would be
derived from "waste-water" conserved.
2. Assumes 50-gallon electric with a 0 59 Energy Factor
3. Net savings in labor versus copper pipes
4. Assumes installed cost of $2,515 for system with one solar panel, annual
operating cost of $85, and annual savings of $240

    To Bion's credit, he chose a tankless water heater as a backup with DHR
because the standing loss of conventional systems wastes much of the solar
energy collected and a comparable amount will go down-the-drain.. For
example, a solar house in Connecticut sub-metered by NE Utility and showed
the following annual cost-breakdown:
(a) Cost if All-Electric @ 11-cents/kWh -- $619;
(b) Cost of Electricity Purchased -- $412;
(c) Value of Standing Losses -- $148;
(d) Solar Savings -- $105;
(e) GFX Savings -- $102.
    NOTE: DHR-savings were intentionally reduced because NE Utiltiies failed
to follow recommended installation guidelines, e.g., cold water fed to the
solar tempering valve and fixtures bypassed the DHR system, so it was not
preheated. Nevertheless, their sub-metering clearly shows how effective
Bion's concept can be.

Carmine
=====================================================
 WaterFilm Energy Inc.;  P.O. Box 128;  Medford, NY 11763
 Voice: 631-758-6271 [Fax: 631-758-0438]
 Email: gfx-ch@msn.com Web: http://oikos.com/gfx/
=====================================================

>
> ----- Ted Wrote -----
>
> Subject: [GBlist] Legionella
>
>
> > Gosh I hate being a NEWBE. I'm going to stay out of most of this, except
> to say.. Doctors usually want people to be healthy. Folks who raise shrimp
> and other critters use ultra-violet filters to kill all sorts of
waterborne
> evil doers. I understand the Swiss have a similar device they are using in
> 3rd world countrys to purify water. Are we arguing points from our IVORY
> TOWERS or looking for a solution to a particular problem? I obviously came
> in late on this, so I'll sit down and shutup. Ted
> > Always glad for the visit
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by REPP/CREST, creator of
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> ______________________________________________________________________
>



______________________________________________________________________
This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by REPP/CREST, creator of
Solstice http://www.crest.org, and BuildingGreen, Inc., publisher of
Environmental Building News and GreenSpec http://www.BuildingGreen.com
______________________________________________________________________