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| Greenbuilding Archive for April 2001 |
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| 307 messages, last added Tue Nov 26 17:25:16 2002 |
[Date Index][Thread Index]
Ted: Have I offended you too in
another life? I don't recall, so please explain why you failed
to correct the clear ignorance of standard engineering terms
displayed by John Herbert, John D'Angelo &
Malcolm. I seemed to have incurred their rath for merely
quoting from various reports; including the DOE evaluation of GFX that assumed
"100%" Conversion Efficiency (CE) in the "Table 1" inserted below. Maybe Milton
Pravda, an NBS (now NIST) Grant evaluator rounded off 99.5% to
100%.
The report by
Old Dominion U. summarized @ www.oikos.com/gfx/tests.html actually
measured the Energy Factor (EF) of several
"green-bundles" and reported the EF range of a tankless water
heater as 0.98 to 1.0. They used standard experimental procedures
and may have rounded off a meter reading of 99.5%, for all I know. Call
them to complain for not quoting 0.99999999 +/- ????.
Would you have me misquote these
reports?
Also, the
definition of CE is (Hot-Water-Power-Out/Site-Power-In). The
denominator does not include "source" power at either a power
plant, gas well, oil well, or the Sun! Similarly, the definition of EF for a water heater is
(Hot-Water-Energy-Out/Site-Energy-In) over a specific time period with
a given hot-water draw schedule.
If you take
issue when one rounds off a measurement to 100%, will
you become aghast when the standard measurement of
EF exceeds unity if applied to heat pump water heater
(HPWH) and DHR systems?
Like-it-or-not, standard definitions for EF & CE can
both exceed unity (100%) if either a HPWH or GFX is bundled
with a tank-type electric water heater. Domestic HPWH's like Hot Shot or
Environmaster cannot be bundled with tankless water heaters. Consequently,
standing loss causes the water heater EF to fall below the heat pump's
C.O.P. That's why the Old Dominion report shows an EF range between
1.7 & 1.9 for a GFX-Tankless Bundle compared 1.33 & 1.57 for a
HPWH/Tank-Type Bundle.
TABLE 1 SIMPLE PAYBACK SUMMARY FOR REDESIGNED THIN-FILM
HEAT EXCHANGER Source: DOE Grant Evaluation of GFX Recommendation No. 382,
OERI No. 009925 Dec. 1986
|
Energy Source |
Conversion
Efficiency |
Energy Cost |
Dollar Savings
per Year |
Simple Payback in Years
(Without Interest) |
|
Electrical |
100% |
8.66¢.kWh |
103.49 |
2.09 |
|
Natural Gas |
76% |
$6.35/106 Btu |
34.09 |
6.34 |
|
Oil |
55% |
$1.00/gallon |
53.48 |
4.04 |
Notes: 1.
Energy saving for an average household is 1195 Kw-hr thermal per
year.
2. Installed cost of heat exchanger is $216. [New Construction] (Table
entries are based on Pravda's 53% design. Today's version, Doucette's Model
G3-60 offers over 60% efficiency)
Are we having fun
yet?
Carmine
===================================================== WaterFilm Energy
Inc.; P.O. Box 128; Medford, NY 11763 Voice: 631-758-6271 [Fax:
631-758-0438] Email: gfx-ch@msn.com Web:
http://oikos.com/gfx/ =====================================================
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 12:20
AM
Subject: Re: [GBlist] Zero Energy House on
Washington Mall (fwd)
> PORTION of previous POST.... Of
course, Carmine was referring to a > "local" efficiency, > Malcolm
is correct, at the best plants in the world the overall > energy
conversation efficiency is at best only 36%, mainly > due the primer mover
loss and transmission losses. > > Electric water heating is
convenient to the home user, > but the overall efficiency is very, very
low indeed. > > Regards, > John Herbert >
_______________ > if electrical resistive heat is the
most expensive form, then, in the > final end how is it efficient? I can
understand easy, reliable, safer, less > per unit bought, faster install,
more versatile-- but I don't see the > efficiency claim. At least based
on BTUs-Watts. > >
_________________________________________________________________ > Get
your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >
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