Re: [GBlist] re. Piece of the "pie" and other guilt trips

["Simon Hon" <stmhon@yahoo.ca>]

Tired of things am I.  I could be more light hearted, but I don't feel like
it right now.
Dunderings will be shoved in and throughout surely to be ranted back at.

On 1/20/02 at 3:57 AM mrjones maxine&ralph wrote:
>
> >First, I really appreciate the great information and practical building
> >tips, esp. re. SIP's. Next to straw bale, that seems the most practical
> >building material, and certainly appears best for ceiling/roof of SB.
> >Thanks, everyone.
> >
> >Isn't guilt a quite useless emotion? The piece of the pie and who is
> >keeping too much, etc. has been pretty emotional at times.Too much
blaming
> >nasty, wealthy US citizens for keeping the poor, esp. in other nations,

If an "intelligent" society sees that people are even capable of guilting
it's own, would it not question the guilt and where it comes from?  Perhaps
society should ask why are we being guilt tripped and listen to the issues
at hand and perhaps come to a solution.  (Instead of asking how many years
we should jail a 14 year old for murder, we should be asking how does a 14
year old get in their mind that killing is acceptable?)

> >down. Anyone willing to admit that perhaps, just possibly, it is the
> >freedom of thought and action we have in the USA that is at the least a
> >partial cause of our success????

I would question the idea that the US has been a success.  Perhaps a success
at being an unsustainable civilization?  Perhaps a success at capitalism
leading to competative individualistic greed?  Success at material
possesions?
Is the US populace actually happier, and more contented with life? (I have
been told studies say no. Source being from a respected University
professor)  Has the success in material possesions and technologies helped
the majority of the population on earth? (NO.)

>>Or that anyone, no matter how "poor"
> >their beginning in life in this nation can (and many do) rise above their
> >"station in life" to become the most successful and/or wealthy people in
> >the nation???? And, that there are often, in the very poorest of nations,
> >a few extremely wealthy citizens at the top who do not allow their
> >citizens at the bottom to move up in wealth????

Does wealth lead to happiness?  Wealth of happiness yes, wealth of material
possesions no.  Standard of living? Possibly.  Note that standard of
standard of living is a comparative notion ivented by ? which could be just
as subjective as 1 rain drop plus 1 rain drop = 1 raindrop.  I would guess
that most americans or at least some have a little more than just food
shelter water.

> >
> >Then there is the political acrimony against business in general, and
> >Republicans and Pres. Bush in particular especiallyh in the field of
> >energy: does it occur that the NY Times is not noted for it's support of
,
> >nor openness toward conservative political ideas, including the direction
> >of energy policies???? We need to consider and research, both with
private
> >and public funds, ALL promising and even some far out energy sources. Not
> >just confine ourselves to ultra-conserving of present resources, not just
> >cry doom and gloom at non-renewable resource use, but learn to amplify
the
> >outputs from it, not decry any practical use of energy under so called
> >pristine areas of  our public lands, but develop resources carefully,

I don't really think any of our resources have ever been developed carefully
except on small scale.  There's always been mass pollution, and habitat
destruction leading to extinction of other species and cultures.  As for
developing new ones, thinking about conserving does not stop us from
researching and development.

>> not
> >to eliminate farming, but make more use of good practices and new crops
to
> >produce renewable fuel sources, for starters. Let our freedom, earned at

I'll just spout that I think the idea of "new" is old, and is part of the
problem.  Yes, SUV's function more efficiently than all cars in the 60's
ran, but there seems to be way more SUVs on the road than there were cars in
the 60's.  So the increase in a "new" efficiency does not equal a solutoin.
If people are only thinking of there personal convienence, they will buy a
car, perhaps two or there.  Hell there super efficient now so I might as
well!

> >such great cost over all the years of our history as a nation, truly free
> >our ingenuity to find new methods of providing for our needs and, yes,
> >even some of our dreams.

I wonder if our needs equals the needs of other people, and species that
inhabit and hold this earth together.

>> We have a long history, too, of sharing from our
> >blessings with those in our own nation and others.

Yes I think the history is of americans taking from other countries and
giving small amounts of it back.  If that's what you consider sharing,
great.

> >
> >Regarding the super-efficient auto research: I necessarily spend a lot of
> time in my car due to distance from services in my extremely rural area. I
> demand performance appropriate to my extreme climate and road conditions
> first and comfort second.

Could one demand performance from oneself and not others.  A bike is still
the most energy efficienct mode of transport we have ever invented.
Scientifically proven.  Why do people live out in the yonders?  Is it
necesarry if one is not growing food, or using the land, or is it to get
away from people like me?

>> I fear most of the money spent on that research
> will not benefit my needs in the least. Further, I believe enough tax
money
> has been spent, and it is high time for the market place to carry on with
> the project!!!!! mj
>

That is exactly what is happening.  The markets are buying up ideas and
putting them on the back burner since it hinders their profits of the now.
They will wait till every last drop of profit can be made before they
release a hydrogen car on mass scale as they do gasoline cars.

Yes! The project is great and it must move foreward!






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