RE: [GBlist] foundation insulation boards

["Paul" <webmaster@globalcircle.net>]

I agree, and the mistake would be looking at each feature in isolation. If
that concrete wall space is also a sunroom by having south glass on one
side, the thermal mass would help heat the house above and moderate
temperature swings in the living space. In summer, the glass could be
covered and the area vented to the outside at night to keep it cool under
the floor, just the reverse of winter. And you'd insulate the outside of
the concrete wall year round. Now this arrangement could easily work on a
south facing slope, harder to do on flat ground of course. You make the
climate work for you instead of against you.

--paul, webmaster http://globalcircle.net
peace and liberty, sustainability and justice
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/25/02 at 11:48 AM Ralph Bicknese wrote:

><Physics tells us that "coolth" does not migrate, it is warmth that
>travels.
>So since the footing/foundation wall/slab is a big heavy chunk of
>warmth-absorbing material, whether or not it's insulated from the outside,
>shouldn't we be talking about isolating our warm inside air from this pig
>of
>an energy-eater?  In other words, build a wall on the inside and a floor
>over your slab?>
>
>Physics is physics but one cannot just take it at face value without
>thinking about the practical applications.
>
>Left uninsulated a concrete basement wall will be cool winter and summer.
>It will be colder in winter than in summer because the ground is colder.
>Even though physics tells us that temperature travels from hot to cold,
the
>wall is still cold.  The cold is getting into that wall in some way;
>conduction from the cool ground to the warmer wall.  True, the heated air
>is
>giving up some of its heat to the cool ground.  But in practice, is not
the
>cool ground also giving up some of its coolth?  Regardless of what the
>physics suggest will happen with the flow of temperature, the wall is
cool.
>
>If a person wants to use the thermal mass of a wall or a slab to help
>moderate the high and low temperature swings one needs to keep the mass
>within the thermal envelope.  In other words, insulation should be placed
>outside the mass. If taking advantage of the mass is not important then
one
>could insulate inside the mass.
>
>I personally like the mass inside.  Besides having the ability to use the
>mass for thermal storage, I can also see if there are any problems with
the
>mass (cracks, water penetration, condensation, mildew, etc.). I have seen
>too many problems with basement walls and slabs to take this lightly,
>including condensation under carpeting on uninsulated basement slabs.
>
>Cheers,
>Ralph Bicknese
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kathleen Mitchell [mailto:molasses@speakeasy.org]
>Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 1:45 PM
>To: greenbuilding@crest.org
>Subject: Re: [GBlist] foundation insulation boards
>
>"Placing insulation on a basement wall and under a slab does not create a
>thermal break between footing, wall and slab and the coolth will wick into
>the slab and the base of he wall."
>
>Physics tells us that "coolth" does not migrate, it is warmth that
travels.
>So since the footing/foundation wall/slab is a big heavy chunk of
>warmth-absorbing material, whether or not it's insulated from the outside,
>shouldn't we be talking about isolating our warm inside air from this pig
>of
>an energy-eater?  In other words, build a wall on the inside and a floor
>over your slab?
>
>Insulating on the inside must open up a whole can of moisture worms, but
>perhaps it's greener in the long run - that is, if it's possible to keep
>your false walls and floors from rotting away without poisoning the
>occupants with arsenic?  LCA, anyone?
>
>A slab just seems like an insane waste to me unless you're using it to
>catch
>and hold the sun's warmth, or you're using it in an unheated space.  But
>then, I live in an area where the frost depth is only 18", and we don't
>have
>to build basements...
>
>-Kathleen Mitchell
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by REPP/CREST, creator of
>Solstice http://www.crest.org, and BuildingGreen, Inc., publisher of
>Environmental Building News and GreenSpec http://www.BuildingGreen.com
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by REPP/CREST, creator of
>Solstice http://www.crest.org, and BuildingGreen, Inc., publisher of
>Environmental Building News and GreenSpec http://www.BuildingGreen.com
>______________________________________________________________________





______________________________________________________________________
This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by REPP/CREST, creator of
Solstice http://www.crest.org, and BuildingGreen, Inc., publisher of
Environmental Building News and GreenSpec http://www.BuildingGreen.com
______________________________________________________________________