[GBlist] re: SIP roofs

[Chris Koehn <chris@koehn.com>]

Title: [GBlist] re: SIP roofs

Sorry you seem to have had a bad experience with SIP's. I'm telling you I haven't. It's not rocket science getting a crew and a crane to show up at the same time. The SIP co I work with guarantees delivery within a certain time window, and the advisor has always been there by 8 a.m. as well (usually comes in the night before). 

Don't whitewash an entire industry because you might have had a (one!) bad experience. Many of us haven't, and I for one feel as though they are worth every bit of their extra cost which- in my experience- is usually pretty minimal if you truly compare apples and apples. Not to mention performance over time.  There is, like anything else, a learning curve with SIP's. The advisor should have helped get you over that. It isn't rocket science.

Perhaps you went with the low bid SIP supplier- you get what you pay for with SIP's as with anything else..




> From: "King & Liang" <lenking@blueridge.net>
> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:11:40 -0400
> To: "'Chris Koehn'" <chris@koehn.com>
> Cc: "Greenbuilding@Crest.Org" <greenbuilding@crest.org>
> Subject: RE: [GBlist] re: SIP roofs

> I just tried my first SIP. Imp an architect and builder with about 30 years in either or. I did not try roof SIPs though-for many reasons which is a whole separate discussion. The point is ­ the many things that go unsaid in the never ending spin of industry life. Like, if you are a first time SIP builder who needs to get a technical rep on site to help advise and train  your crew combined with getting the panels delivery scheduled with the reps arrival combined with no down time so you do not have to lay off your crew (since the panels are the core of the work allowing nothing to go on until they are in), combined with the incidentals of getting either a boom truck or a 2nd labor crew on site at the same moment unless you want to pay $100/ hr. to sit and wait for numerous parties you may or may not know to show up.  I think you get the drift, and these are all in addition to the normal situations delt with in construction (like weather and your own crew to say the very least). 
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>  
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> In short, spin and spin but never a real word said. Such is sales and the SIP industry is no different than any other (they also cost a pretty penny compared to alternatives) (yes yes so much long term savings in AC bills, etc.) (which is not too relevant to the housing industry other than owner built stuff at the present time---unfortunately) (a small but nagging reality which sales people will never tell you assuming they even know or understand it). 
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> Sorry SIP industry, I wish you well and hope and believe you will make it but I do not appreciate building a business with spin.  
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>  
>
> Len King 
>
> Lake Lure NC 
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Koehn [mailto:chris@koehn.com] 
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:32 PM
> To: greenbuilding@crest.org; Sacie H Lambertson
> Subject: [GBlist] re: SIP roofs 
>
>  
>
> Hi Sacie and all-
>
> Sacie of course you are correct that installing SIP's carefully and per instructions is key to the system. However I would argue that this is true of ANY building system; and indeed that it's probably easier to do with SIP's than virtually any other system. 
> I recently finished a job here in Wisconsin; part timber framed and part SIP. The SIP roof was carried at the ridge by a glulam, and at the eves by wall SIP's. The panels came to the job with LVL splines pre-installed on one long edge (helping tie adjacent panels together and adding strength to the assembly), and the opposing edges were relieved to accept them. We set the entire roof in a day- 1,760 sq ft of panel. We simply applied adhesive (supplied by the SIP co) to the top and bottom of each LVL, flew the (8' X 22') panels into place with a crane, fed them on to the adjacent panel, screwed them to the ridge and eve (with epoxy coated screws, also supplied by the SIP co), and nailed the LVL's in to the adjacent panels with 8D's and a nail gun. Foam up the foaming gap at the ridge. Done. And I bet it's more air leak proof than ANY truss roof- and it offers a vaulted ceiling, and R43.. 
>
> Yes the glue had to be installed properly, the panels had to be installed square, nailing and screwing schedules had to be followed.. but IMHO this is by far easier than doing trusses to this level of tightness and insulation. 
>
> Perhaps the SIP co you have worked with in the past doesn't do as thorough a job prepping all this stuff, or supplying an "advisor" to get the crew started. Perhaps this sounds like a sales pitch- maybe it is- but I really believe they are easier to do right than perhaps what you've experienced..
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris