RE: [pvusers] Propane refrigerators & mobile phone chargers

["U-solar" <24h@u-solar.com>]

Robert,

 

Just a short remark coming from the apprentice marketer that I consider myself to be :

 

Although I agree with you 110% on the love relation between propane refrigerator and PV, I don't think 'stupid' is a word that should be used for customers. If they come back for support, it is generally because the product does not work or because they do not have time to go through a lenghty manual. Otherwise they would not bother to do the trip and potentially face some unfriendly after-sales assistant. Customers need education and reliable products. We are all responsible for providing them just these so that, in the end, they all start to believe it exists an alternative to 'classic' environmentally harmful technologies.

 

Apart from this I will definitely go for a propane fridge when I move home, which should be very soon (the war may start as soon as tomorrow where I currently work temporarily, in Islamabad, Pakistan !).

 

Cheers to you and all interested,

 

Gregory Boutin-Wang
http://www.u-solar.com/

Lead the Online Market of Solar Photovoltaic Energy Today

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Warren [mailto:robertwarren@mail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:51 AM
To: rnn@rnn.com; pvusers@crest.org
Cc: ross@rnn.com
Subject: [pvusers] Propane refrigerators & mobile phone chargers

Ross,
Propane refrigerators, in case you don't know, are directly related to the PV users list in that refrigeration is fairly expensive to do via PV, and a propane refrigerator can significantly reduce the investment needed to get entirely off the grid. The Sunfrost DC reefers, which have been a hot topic lately, are much more expensive than ordinary reefers. And buying an energy efficient refrigerator can still add an extra $2,000 for extra PV modules plus $2,000 more for the additional battery capacity. I thought I was doing people a service by answering specific propane reefer repair questions once in awhile. They are finding the PV list archives and sending questions because the PV user newsgroup exists.
In reference to your PS about PV cell phone recharges, I have been evalu! ating various manufacturers' offerings as senior engineer with Solar Century in London (www.solarcentury.co.uk) and we have not yet found any, which meet our standards. Not only is there a huge variety in battery voltage and plug requirements, there has to be a rugged package with some type of internal regulation comparable to what the phone manufacturer's /battery needs are. Phones are lighter and slimmer because, among other improvements, they can keep the battery regulation electronics in a separate charger. We now have a charge regulator on a chip the size of a postage stamp, which can easily go into a small PV charger.
I wouldn't mind paying $40/watt if all I need is 1 watt to charge my new Ericson T-39m. A lot of the expense of any PV module is always packaging, you can't expect $5.00/watt pricing. My plug-in charger is 3 watts and will recharge my phone in 2 hrs, so a 1-watt charger would recharge it in around 6 or 7 hrs. Fully charged, it is good for 200 hrs of s! tandby and 9 hrs of talktime. That said, I wouldn't trust my cell phone lifeline to a cheap Radioshack product that was likely made in China with no regulation.
You said you measured 19.00 VDC with your multi-meter: this was open circuit voltage (Voc). What you need to measure, if you put the right size resistor in series, is the Vp --volts peak, under power. You can get away with a certain amount of mismatch if the PV Vp is higher than the required charging voltage, but if it is too close to the same (for example if you have a 12.4 Vp charging a 12 volt battery) it doesn't work too well.
The main reason our company hasn't gotten into this market is that consumers can be so stupid and at the same time so demanding, so you end up spending so much on customer service that it becomes a losing game. We also found another major problem: plugging in the charger jack would temporarily short out the phone battery and it would go dead and have to be kick started be removing a! nd replacing the battery. -- Robert Warren

----- Original Message -----
From: Renewable News Network
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:54:12 -0400
To: pvusers@crest.org
Subject: Re: [pvusers] Re: Propane refrigerators (fwd)


> Dear pv list nation,
>
> Does this topic have anything remotely to do with pv?
>
> Or, is it thatpv users are somehow more likely to be interested in propane? Why's that? And can anything be made of it/this to help get us back on track?
> Yours truly,
> Ross
> ps. i may bring a solar consumer report up under separate head re: the iSun Radio Shack cell phone recarger. I don't think so. Big disappointment. 2.2 watts $69.00 not consumer ugly, but I'm not sure it works, in general, as sold. It did not appear to charge my Ericsson/Sony T60 cellphone over last week in a remote off grid situation.
> may be just a discrepency between selling points and actual performance.
> Maybe I screwed up. there was! a neatly hidden 6/12 vdc output switch, and the multi-meter-measured output was 19.00 vdc, so the quantity of milliamp
> just may be insufficient, and not up to the task. At $40.00 per pv watt,
> this could get expensive. I'll support the retails sales of solar
> appliances and devices, but they gotta work. -ross@rnn.com
>
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Robert Warren wrote:
>
> >
> > From: "Jason J"
> > Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:41:51 -0700
> > To:
> > Subject: please help
> >
> > I found a thread that contained a a message about propane fridges. Maybe
> > you can help me. I have a NORCOLD propane fridge. It starts, and cools
> > really cold. But when the thremostat clicks off, the flame goes out. It
> > either freezes or it's off. What's the deal? The orifice is not
> > obstructed...
> > Jason,
> > You may have ! a burned out thermopile. I have never worked on a  Norcold, but it sounds like one of the newer models with two flames.
> > The main flame should be only the size of what you think a normal  pilot light flame is. The flame will be about the size of your 
> index fingernail, mostly blue with only a bit of yellow around
> > the edges. The pilot light flame is a little smaller and just
> > stays on all the time. 
> The fact that you can light it and get it makes me think that
> > the thermopile !
> > is almost burned out. It may generate just enough
> >
> > electricity when the main flame is on, but not enough when the
> >
> > smaller pilot is lit. A thermopile is the small sensor thingy
> >
> > placed just near the edge of the pilot flame area, and it creates
> >
> > a tiny millivoltage bit of power, which is enough ! to hold open
> >
> > the little electrical coil that operates the safety valve. You
> >
> > can get another thermopile at your local Ace hardware or a
> >
> > refrigeration supply. Even though you won't be able to match
> > it exactly, all you really have to do is to match the thread
> > size where it screws into the gas valve. Be sure there is no
> > gas supply hooked up when you unscrew anything on this valve.
> > The electrical voltage signal is not very much, and they
> > don't vary that much anyway. You just have to try to match
> > the bottom end in shape and thread size. By shape, I mean you 
> have to look at where the bottom end contacts the electric
> > point inside the hole where you unthreaded it. Screw the new thermopile in without any Teflon
> > > > tape, and don't use any pipe dope, either. Otherwise you !
> >
> > may insulate the negative side of the electrical connection.
> >
> > A thermopile makes electricity from heat across a dielectric
> >
> > junction: e.g., 2 dissimilar metals in contact, and electrons
> >
> > flow from the one with the higher charge to the lower charge
> >
> > on the outer electron shell. The business end of the
> >
> > thermopile should be just near at outside edge of the flame,
> >
> > or slightly above it, but not in the centre, which is the
> > hottest spot.
> > The other possibility is that your gas valve solenoid is
> > getting corroded or the coil itself is weak. You may be
> > able to find an entire replacement valve kit from a
> > refrigeration catalogue.
> > I live in London now, so there isn't much else I can do
> > for you.
> ! > Last, if all else fails, take it to an old time
> > refrigeration guy. Sometimes, you have to get help. How much is it worth to have a really cold beer on those hot summer afternoons?
> > What will we do if there is another fuel shortage?
> > Did you know that there is a pollution free, completely renewable fuel which you can use right now in your own car?
> > Don't replace the engine, replace the fuel. Check out my website on making your own fuel:
> > http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com
> > Preview my new book, "25 years as a moonshiner"
> > by Robert Warren
> > robertwarren@mail.com
> >
> > --
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>



What will we do if there is another fuel shortage?
Did you know that there is a pollution free, completely renewable fuel which you can use right now in your own car?
Don't replace the engine, replace the fuel. Check out my website on making your own fuel:
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com
Preview my new book, "25 years as a moonshiner"
by Robert Warren
robertwarren@mail.com

--

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