Re: "Worlds Fastest Stove" Contest

[Reedtb2@cs.com]

Dear Stovers:

Much as I like a contest, I submit that the contests suggested for speed of water boiling do not move us much closer to CLEAN, EFFICIENT, RELEVANT cooking for the billion or so ladies of developing countries who don't have these attributes in their makeshift, poorly designed stoves.  Here's a few comments.

My wife's electric stove takes --
 
6.0  minutes to "bottom boil" 1 liter of water
6.5 minutes to "rocking boil" 1 liter of water.

(17 cm diameter pot with copper bottom (outside, but stainless inside; 1.5 kW spiral electric burner 15 cm in diameter)

I tried boiling 1 l water in the microwave - Much longer than 6 minutes, but I'll try again.

Our turbo stove takes 5-7 minutes from lighting the tinder with wood chips or pellets.  
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fast boiling really tests the POWER of the heat source and efficiency of transmission of that power to and THROUGH the pot bottom.  **  In the above test you could see the bubbles forming at each ring of the elements, but it took another 30 seconds to reach rocking boil.  I suspect an aluminum pan would do much better since the thermal conductivity of Al is 10 X stainless.  

For real cooking excess power to drive heat fast to and through the pot bottom implies difficulty in low power cooking which should occupy 80% of the cook cycle.  

Yes we need 1.5 kW efficiently applied to bring water to the boil, but we equally need 0.1 kW to slow cook the beans.  High turndown (low, clean power) is much harder to achieve than high power!
                                                       ~~~~~
.  So?  If American housewives were REALLY into speed the stove companies would meet their needs. 

Boiling water is not the sin-qua-non of cooking!  The cook spends much more time preparing the food and has learned from her mother when to put the pot on to boil while doing other things.  

I suggest that all of us stovers (including me) need to do more practical cooking on a stove we are recommending to developing country cooks.  Vivian and I have made a few bowls of soup, a few pots of coffee and a loaf of bread on our turbo stove, but that just cracks the surface.

There is no doubt that REASONABLE speed of boiling is useful and should maybe be under 10 minutes/liter.  But when that requirement is met efficiency and low emissions (for indoor cooking) take over.  

Hate to be a wet blanket.  Kevin's rules are well thought out - for a contest, but don't contribute much to real world cooking.  

Yours truly,                           TOM REED             BEF STOVEWORKS

*Elegant lorgnetted dowager to tinker:  Are you copperbottoming em my man?

Tinker: No, I'm aluminiuming em, mam.  

In a message dated 1/9/02 9:31:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, kchishol@fox.nstn.ca writes:
> Dear Stovers
>
> Many thoughtful comments have been posted concerning "a stove contest." I
> think that without exception all the comments are valid in the context of
> the specific interests of the poster. However, the diversity of the comments
> shows the multifaceted nature of stoves.I don't think it is possible to
> configure a single Stove Contest that serves all the interests of the
> various
> posters.
>
> Firstly, the "contest" is not intended to provide a test basis for comparing
> various stoves on the market now. Secondly, it is not intended to have the
> stove constrained by practicality. Rather, it is intended to be a "fun
> thing" with a focus on some specific and limited aspect of stoves.
>
> To attract the greatest number of "contest entrants", I would suggest that
> the Rules should be structured to accomplish the following objectives:
> 1: The stove system should be a simple one, easy to build, fun to build, and
> low cost.
> 2: It does not have to be durable or cost effective.
> 3: There should be maximum freedom for creativity.
> 4: The "contest rules" should help focus effort in a given
> direction, but they should not be so restrictive as to constrain creativity
> on the part of the entrant in meeting the contest objective.
> 5: However, they should be of a nature that they create a "reasonably level
> playing field," such that the Entrant will be unlikely to win unless he does
> something significantly different or better that does not conflict with the
> stated rules.
> 6: The "end points" of the contest (ie, the "start and finish line") should
> be defined to be clear and obvious.
>
> Can anyone else add to this list of "principles in formulating basic rules?"
>
> The next concern is the "Object of the Contest." As noted in postings to
> this thread,  a number of different contests are possible, and indeed, they
> could make for a very interesting "Stove Event." Based on 500 grams of
> permissable
> fuel, I would suggest the following possible contests:
>
> 1: Worlds Fastest Water Heater (heats water to a boil)
> 2: Worlds Fastest Water Boiler (boils off 1.0 litres)
>
> In the second contest, to determine when the pot was boiled dry, the Entrant
> would decide when the pot was empty, and he would take it off the stove, and
> turn it upside down on a piece of white paper: The Judges stop their clocks
> as soon as they can see that there is no water on the paper. If there is
> water on the paper, the Entrant is Disqualified.
>
> With the same basic equipment, it should be possible to also run:
>
> 3: The Worlds most Efficient Stove Contest.
>
> Basically, the Entrant would select the grams of fuel that just brought the
> water to a boil; the lowest starting weight of wood would determine the
> Winner.
>
> So far, these Contests would be easy to Judge. Things get a bit more complex
> if we have to consider corrections for elevation above sea level, or
> barometric pressure corrections.I would propose to ignore barometric
> pressure or elevation corrections for the following reasons:
> a: While the water would tend to boil at a lower temperature under
> conditions of lower barometric pressure, the reduced air density may have a
> tendancy to slow the fire and compensate for the lower boiling temperature..
> b: In the case of an Event, involving a number of entrants, the local
> conditions will be virtually identical for the duraton of the Event.
>
> If it turns out that barometric pressure does inded give an Entrant in high
> places an advantage, then we could configure a Handicap System that
> corrected for barometric pressure.
>
> I think I have covered most of the major indicated concerns.
>
> I would now like to seek several Volunteers to work on the Contest
> Committee. Our first task would be to review the comments to date, and
> prepare a Draft of Contest Rules for final review and comment by the Stove
> List. The initial Contest would be the Fastest Stove Contest, and the
> Contest Committee would then work on preparing rules for other suitable
> contests.
>
> The Contests could also be organized by State, Country, Continent, and then
> the World. These local contests would be organized locally, and the winners
> at each level would advance progressively to the World Level.
>
> This could be a great way to draw attention to the importance of stoves to
> Society.
>
> Does this sound like a reasonable way to proceed from here?
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Kevin Chisholm