Re: Juntos stove - refined somewhat

["Paul S. Anderson" <psanders@ilstu.edu>]

Dan, Dean and all Stovers:

Quick replies to Dan's excellent info.   (and a note that the
small-size attached files have received 3 favorable responses and nobody
has yet mentioned that they were too large to receive in an e-mail
message.  Note:  My Mavica digital camera has an option to make
an "e-mail" size file for every picture that is at the standard
or fine-quality.  Those small ones are what I have sent to you.)

I am in the middle of Illinois (Bloomington-Normal area), about 3 hours
west of Indianapolis via I-74.  I would LOVE to have you visit
here.  We could "stove" together.

Yes, I do have a two-stage fire (or 2-level fire) or fires on each of 2
levels.   Or maybe even could be called three (3) levels:

The lower level is the gasifier that has the gas production via a glowing
fire at the bottom and also the burning of the gasses about 2 to 4 inches
(10 cm) above, that is where the flame is found.   (could be
called 2 fires, but I think of it as one gasifier unit in which the
gasses are generated in one place and shortly thereafter are burned in
another place.).

Above all of that is the modified "Rocket" stove, which has no
bottom (just a grate to hold fuel) so that the gasifier fire(s) burn
right up into it.

There is almost no smoke associated with the gasifier.

I had the gasifier working for about 3 - 5 minutes before lighting the
Rocket unit.  The Rocket unit was loaded with 2 small briquettes
(one from Crispin in Swaziland and one from Apolinario in Mozambique)
plus a couple minor wood pieces (and I set the blaze with a 20 x 20 cm
piece of newspaper).  When I lit the paper, the Rocket started to
blaze almost immediately, with less than 15 seconds of rather minor
smoke, and there was no noticeable smoke for the remainder of the
burn.

During this burn, my small charge (one "tuna fish can") of
initial gasifier fuel (pellets) was consumed in about 10 -15 minutes
except to leave charcoal.  I saved the charcoal, reloaded the
gasifier with the same amount, lit it with my "secret" lighting
compound (Shhhhh... do not tell anyone that it is wood shavings mixed
with sawdust and then dampened with "torch fuel" like
citronella or kerosene (and I will try meat grease someday). 
:-))  

The re-lit gasifier was re-inserted under the still-burning Rocket stove
and a great fire was had by all.

I then inserted a full-size (Legacy style) briquette with a hole in the
center, place vertically in  the Rocket chamber.  This
briquette had about 50 - 70% charcoal fines in it, rest was paper pulp as
binder, made in Mozambique.  It burned very well, but I feel that
the gasifier under it was needed.  Also, there were little
"sparky-pops" that occurred, I believe because the charcoal
fines had been soaked in the watery mush that was used to make the
briquette.

Under a separate subject something like "Sparks from wet charcoal
fines" could someone please explain this.  Maybe ELK knows
because I think he soaks his charcoal fines before briquetting 
them.

The second fuel charge of the gasifier was expended (another 10 - 15
minutes) and I removed the charcoal.  Then I thought, How would this
plus the previously created charcoal (from the first fuel load of the
gasifier) behave if placed it into the chamber of the Rocket stove, which
has a grate for a bottom?  Well, I put in the charcoal, and
everything continued to burn nicely.

The gasifier was empty, and the Rocket's fuels were down to embers and
charcoal.  All was glowing nicely, and was very responsive to
blowing air into the side (loading) hole of the Rocket.

Well, after about 1 hour 20 minutes total time I still had reasonable
heat from the charcoal, and I had to leave, so I extinguished the
remaining fuel.  I am sure it would have burned down to a very small
amount of ash. 

Thus ended the first burn with the combined Juntos stove parts, as shown
in the previously sent pictures.

That stove is already out of date.  I have several more
modifications, both for usefullness and for cost-reduction.

Dan and others:  I am not sure if the Rocket on top of the gasifier
is what others would call an "afterburner".  Please
enlighten us all about "afterburners".

The weather here is "freezing rain, turning to light snow, followed
by some Arctic cold."  The same as what Dan has and will get in
Ohio.  Enjoy wherever you are.
 
Paul

At 01:26 AM 1/31/02 -0500, Carefreeland@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated
> 1/30/02 6:21:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, dstill@epud.net writes:
> > Dan's comments in text
>
> > Dear Paul,
> >
> > I'm glad that we're starting to send small pictures, worth a thousand
> > words
> > sometimes and does not clog up my not terribly fast system.
> >
> > I've often wondered, especially since you started in this direction,
> > whether
> > starting a fire above a fire in a chimney would benefit both fires so
> > that
> > the result was overall cleaner combustion. Can you determine if this is
> > so?
>
>
> > >Dean and Paul, I couldn't make out all of
> > the details of this stove, but it looks very intresting.  Paul, If
> > you are in Illinois, I can come see you some slow day and take a look at
> > this.  How far are are you from
> > Indianapolis?     
> > >   Dean, My greenhouse(GH) stove #1 works on this exact
> > principal, it has an afterburner based on a controlled chimney fire, and
> > works great with somewhat wet wood once it is hot.  Howls like the
> > afterburners on the B-52's flying overhead.  I love burning pine and
> > spruce on an oak or hickory charcoal base when the greenhouse really
> > needs heat. The tar accumulated in the pipe at night burns out the next
> > day. 
>
>
> > Does the upper fire clean up escaping smoke
> > from the lower?
>     
>
> >On my GH stove? absolutely- like a charm.
>
> > Does preheated
> > hopefully swirling air help the upper fire to burn
> > cleaner?
>
> >see above comment.
>
> Is there greater 
> > draft because of the upper fire that assists
> > better burning in the lower
> > fire?
>
> >Unbelivable effect ! especially with an expanding chimney at the
> point of emergence of flame from afterburner to chimney pipe.  I go
> from 6" well casing to an 8" stove pipe. Also have an
> accidental air leak here that finishes the burn abruptly. 
>
> Are exit temperatures above 1200F? Etc.
>
>   > Never measured here, but I have a galvanized heating duct
> pipe for a temporary stove pipe and it has lost some zink, and I've seen
> it glow a little. 
> > Thanks for doing this interesting experiment!
>
>
> > >  Started this construction of my
> > stove as a small experiment, I was just cleaning up my wood smoke, and
> > enhancing the draft on my stove to raise the efficiancy. I extract heat
> > for my greenhouse from this afterburner through a corrigated iron sheet
> > that reduces the backflow of heat when the stove burns out late at night.
>
>
>        >  The first time I added a
> firebrick to the entrance to divert the air, and preheat it a 
> > little, I burned out the wrought iron brick
> > retainer. That's when I knew I was on to something special.
>
>
> > Yes, the top part of your stove is a Rocket.
> > But we certainly have no
> > trouble with anyone using Rocket ideas...That's what we're trying to
> > spread
> > around!
>
> > I'm only spreading this info around intended for those who share
> theirs with me.  If this makes you feel guilty, QUIT LURKING and
> share what YOU know. 
> > I have an old recirculating flow coal/wood burner attached to this
> afterburner.  The extra brick makes the air swirl in from the front
> in two wide jets, exiting the back of the stove. It resembles, and
> somewhat acts like an open hearth furnace, reaching apparent temps of
> F2500+ degrees.  I have smelted iron ore nuggets into a bloom with
> this devise,(for demonstration, not practicality) and Tom R.@BEF has the
> evidence.
> >      During the day I cook down a load of
> trash wood with wide open air, kicking in the bleeding secondary air,
> causing afterburn, and charcoal accumulation as I cut primary air back
> some.
>    >     At night I put in hardwood like
> oak, and let it slow heat on the charcoal bed. The burning oak wood helps
> afterburn the mix in the stove on low heat, but I'm not always impressed
> with the turn down efficiancy unless the oak is very dry.  
> >      I have 2 air tubes through the top of
> the stove, attached to an old cooler fan, that suck hot air into the
> greenhouse, presurizing the GH with warm air.  This is good to
> eliminate drafts from many air leaks. 
> >       When It is cold, I kick in stove
> #2 which exits the air from the green house through a potbellied type
> stove under light pressure. This pressure eliminates blow back of smoke
> into the greenhouse when starting, when draft is low from a cold chimney.
> Also enhances the inflow through the #1 stove when exhaust exit is a hot
> draft. 
> > This stove system is constantly changing and evolving, I would like
> to someday patent devises based on design principals learned here. 
> What I have described is some semi-public snapshots of this continuing
> experiment.  As long as no one reproduces this entire exact design,
> I have no problem with anyone learning from it. 
> > Iron ore bloomed in 3/2001.  I reached the design point
> described here as of about 12/ 2000 with addition of second
> stove.   Afterburner and heat exchanger constructed and
> improved from 12/98- 3/99. All dates are estimates. 
> > Thanks Dean and Paul, for allowing me to borrow your string to
> "hide" this poor inventor's records smack dab in the middle of
> public domain.  Directed for use by those of us stovers that are
> truly "JUNTOS"(together) and "KRIJANI"(friends)
> > I request politely that this letter not be reproduced more than
> necessary.  I will however, address some questions about the
> "Dan's GH stove" under the "juntos" string name to my
> attention. 
> > Look for pictures someday on my  carefreelandscape. com 
> website currently under construction, I promise.  Archive this
> letter to describe pictures. 
>                                             
> Daniel J Dimiduk 
>                              
> Shangri- La Research and Development Co. 
>                                      
> Ohio Charcoal and Iron project
> > Best,
> >
> > Dean

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.,  Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00

Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University

Normal, IL  61790-4400   Voice:  309-438-7360;  FAX:  309-438-5310

E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items:
www.ilstu.edu/~psanders