Re: CO detection

["Das" <das@eagle-access.net>]

Alex

The dilution method which I outline provides for measurement of CO at the
inlet to a probe.  Dilution is between the probe inlet and the detector
cell.  Precision is determined by the precision of flow measurement for
dilution ratio and the detector precision.  This is definitely NOT room
dilution.  Please re read my description.  I think you will agree. I can
also do a similar measurement with inexpensive sensors for CO2 , O2.


A. Das
Original Sources/Biomass Energy Foundation
Box 7137, Boulder, CO 80306
das@eagle-access.net

----------
> From: *.English <english@adan.kingston.net>
> To: Das <das@eagle-access.net>
> Cc: stoves@crest.org
> Subject: Re: CO detection
> Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 7:49 PM
> 
> Hello Das,
> 
> Good ideas! 
> However I think we need to take it a little farther. Your method will 
> sample gases in a chimney, just under a pot or in a vent hood 
> exhaust, but it does not account for excess air dilution through the 
> stove. Without measuring O2 , CO2 or total mass flow we can't fairly 
> compare combustion quality. 
> 
> So I supose the stove testing operation could be in a box on a 
> scale with a fixed air change rate supplied by a blower that supplies 
> not less than perhaps twice the air requirements of the stove at 
> maximum power. If the air flow paterns don't bias stove function, 
> would  this go far enough to allow for valid rough comparisons? 
> 
> Alex English
> 
> 
> 
> > Dilution Method for CO Measurement Inside STOVES
> > 
> > In response to the CO monitoring question I am familiar with the
Nighthawk
> > CO detector which provides digital readout 35 to 999 ppm with a 2.5
minute
> > refresh rate.  It is available inexpensively ($40 - 60) at most
hardware
> > and building supply stores.
> > This can be rigged using an air tight enclosure around the detector, a
> > small vacuum pump ( 1 cfm compressor from a dead refrigerator free) and
a
> > pair of floating ball flow meters ($10 to $20 new) to adjust for a
1000:1
> > dilution ratio.  This would give a round number readout of  10 X CO %
for
> > 3.5 to 99.9 %  CO.  This is good for fuel gas measurement.  All this
for
> > under $100 in parts.  This is a lot better than the gas analyzer
industry
> > standard offer of $2000 per gas. 
> > 
> > Environmental CO measurement around STOVES
> > I have always appreciated a CO detector in the working environment
around
> > gasifier and combustion equipment.
> > This inexpensive  Nighthawk  CO detector indication is blanked out to
> > display zero CO for all levels below 35 ppm per Underwriters Laboratory
> > requirements to reduce the number of fire department calls.  (Full
story is
> > available at http://www.avweb.com/articles/codetect.html#comparison). 
This
> > casts a pall of suspicion on those zero CO readings at the end of
indoor
> > turbo stove runs.  
> > 
> > Private airplane pilots have found an inexpensive faster reading lower
> > threshold digital readout CO detector for cockpit  have prevailed on a
CO
> > detector manufacturer to produce a low level CO detector the AIM Model
935
> > Low-Level CO Monitor  www.Aeromedix.com  or via a 24-hour toll-free
> > telephone number: 888-362-7123.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A. Das
> > Original Sources/Biomass Energy Foundation
> > Box 7137, Boulder, CO 80306
> > das@eagle-access.net
> > 
> > ----------
> > > From: Tami Bond <Tami.Bond@noaa.gov>
> > > To: stoves@crest.org
> > > Subject: Re: CO detection
> > > Date: Friday, November 23, 2001 8:58 PM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Stovers,
> > > 
> > > > We've talked and talked about CO metering on this list, but none 
> > > > of our technically-inclined members have come up with a workable 
> > > > and affordable instrument design yet. 
> > > 
> > > What's 'affordable'? There are at least a couple of CO devices on the

> > > market in the 250-300 USD range. There are combustion analyzers for 
> > > under 1000 USD that will measure CO, CO2. (Bacharach is the most 
> > > famous, I think-- often used in gas-furnace service, for example-- 
> > > www.bacharach-inc.com). 
> > > 
> > > Is that too much? What kind of price ought we to target? 
> > > 
> > > Trouble with the cheap devices is the response time is slow (~10 
> > > minutes) and if your burn is changing rapidly you might miss high and

> > > low spots. That may not matter if you are measuring IAQ. I'm of the 
> > > opinion that real-time monitoring is needed, though. 
> > > 
> > > What do we need to measure? What species, response times, ranges? I
am 
> > > trying to organize thoughts on this, and started writing something
for 
> > > circulation that I should've finished a couple of weeks ago. Then I
got 
> > > bogged down by explaining procedures from USEPA vs procedures that
are 
> > > reproducible by our 'real' clients-- that is, people without money.
But 
> > > the paper is still in the works, I promise!
> > > 
> > > Tami
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -
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