Re: More hot hydrogen

["Ron Larson" <ronallarson@qwest.net>]

Crispin (cc stoves):

    For several personal (all volunteer) reasons, I woiuld like to hear more
about your friend's work with hydrogen.  See more below.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Crispin" <crispin@newdawn.sz>
To: "Stoves" <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:41 AM
Subject: More hot hydrogen


> Dear Tom
>
> >Now all we have to do is find a ready source of hydrogen at a cost
> < triple that of any other fuel
>
> I believe he has solved the hydrogen availability problem rather
> brilliantly. I do not have a fuel equivalent cost.

(RWL):  Can you describe the general approach to your friend's hydrogen
production?  I have several friends who have studied the hydrogen/engiine
approach and have come away convinced that it is not cost effective to
obtain one's hydrogen from methane .  The efficiency of that conversion is
not good enough to compare even with fuel cell propulsion (but possibly
justified for other reasons - such as 1) reducing emissions locally and 2)
getting a hydrogen economy started that would be based on renewables at a
later date.)   They are not opposed to hydrogen in IC engines if the
hydrogen is generated economically from electrolysis (wind?), biomass, etc.

    <snip>

> Well, an old man has finally come up with an amazing device.  I am
> impressed, anyway.  He is 87 years old, BTW and many years ago invented
the
> zinc-air battery.  He used a huge one to drive several hundred kilometers
in
> a modified Bentley in the 40's. In case you think that electric cars are
> something that has not been demonstrated decently and that the oil powered
> car industry is not machinating in the background to prevent them
> 'arriving', he sold the patent on the zinc-air batter to the largest
> lead-acid battery company in the world for 15 million pounds in 1953 and
> they promptly buried it, nearly forever.  Recently someone in Korea claims
> to have invented (and patented) a marvellous new zinc battery which is
> exactly the same one he build in the 50's.

(RWL):  Can you give us his name?  Still interested in batteries?  A South
African?  Does he still feel that zinc-air is best (compared to Lithium-ion,
etc)?  Incidentally, I have been driving a Honda Insight hybrid for about 18
months (60 mpg - almost 100 km/g - or about 25 km per liter) and can endorse
it as a likely strong contender to be the approach of choice for most
vehicles.  I wonder if your friend would agree that hybrids look appropriate
in his approach (Amory Lovins does).

>
> I will ask him what actual power he is getting out of the engine at its
> current stage of development.
>
> Regards
> Crispin the eye witness
>
(RWL):  What aspect of this energy train is he most working on now?

    In the US much of the hydrogen emphasis is on fuel cells.  I am told
that we are trying to catch up with good fuel cell progress in Europe and
Japan.

    On both the supply and applications side, the national hydrogen R&D
headquarters is at the National Renwable Energy Laboratory (NREL), where Tom
and I both worked (but well before they had started much Hydrogen work).  A
furor is growing within the US RE community, because it appears that our US
national emphasis is in the process to shifting to the natural gas, coal,
and nuclear industries.  If your friend has something very new that can be
reported (especially on renewables), I have friends who can help get a
hearing.

    Lastly, to bring this into the world of "stoves", there is little doubt
that hydrogen would be a perfect household cooking fuel - if it could be
supplied and stored cheaply.  I know of no-one making that claim now.

    In the last two weeks, I have heard Amory Lovins give two talks on his
"Hypercar" (hydrogen-fuel cell) approach.  An engineer who has worked on the
project said the project has still not been picked up by any major auto
firm - as they do not yet have a low enough means of producing and using the
carbon fiber technology needed to get a low-weight, strong car body that
will allow a smaller fuel cell and therefore a small enough on-board storage
system.  Any list member knowledgeable on carbon fiber production?  (a nice
place to use carbon from carbon-making stoves?)  Apparently now the carbon
fibers are mostly coming from the sludge at the end of the diesel fuel
production process. (The preceding a shameful means of promoting
charcoal-making stoves.).

    Thanks for bringing your friend's work to our attention.  There are many
who would love to see some new promising results in this area.

    Anything new to report on your own stove development work?

Ron






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