Welding Cast Iron

["Tom Reed" <tombreed@attbi.com>]

Dear Rogerio and all:

(Let me remind all of you to check the SUBJECT for Emails and change if not
appropriate.)

Rogerio is SO right that it is difficult to weld cast iron.  HOWEVER, if you
cut off a small 2 mm cross section to act  as a welding rod AND heat the
cast iron to red heat, it can be welded and then cooled slowly.

The founder of the BEF discovered this technique and used it to weld cast
iron heads for diesel engines.  Eventually he was the principal source in
the U.S. and died worth $15 Million from this and other causes.

Yours truly,           TOM REED                BEF


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda" <rmiranda@entelnet.bo>
To: <rstanley@legacyfound.org>; "Tom Reed" <tombreed@attbi.com>
Cc: "Stuart Conway" <stuart@treeswaterpeople.org>; "Dean Still"
<dstill@epud.net>; "Stoves" <Stoves@crest.org>; <prolena@sdnnic.org.ni>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Aluminum griddles...


Just a note to say that the disk we are using is from cast iron, supposely
with a longer life span. We are observing, that some  has oxidized faster
than expected. Volunteers from Dayton took some disks  back home to
investigate, and the disks were warped as well.

another issue is how to weld cast iron on steel?  sometimes they do not
bond well among them.

the use on  an internal angle iron frame to reinforce the griddle to avoid
edges warping has proved effective, so far very few complains.

regarding  upward warping, still in the factory, we hammer down  with one
strong hit from a 2 kg hammer,  the center of the warping area, to force
the warp downwards instead, creating a more stable surface for sitting
the  pots and it is true that with the 6 inches cast iron under the
griddle, the warping is minimized.

rogerio
proleņa


At 11:39 a.m. 30/08/02 -0700, Richard Stanley wrote:
>Just an off the cuff obsevation about the riddle of the griddle:
>A griddle of steel with a slight dish shape to it would allow that
>expansion with less chance of warping because the stress causing the
>expansion can be expressed through a slight  deepening of the dish.
Thoughts ?
>R Stanley
>
>Tom Reed wrote:
>>Dear Stuart and ALL:
>>
>>Not surprised at the warping of 1/8" steel plates.  The problem is that
>>local heat causes expansion before the whole griddle can get hot.
>>
>>you might think that aluminum would not be suitable for a griddle, but
lets
>>think about it.  Lots of pots and pans in the U.S. are aluminum.  It
>>conducts heat about 10-X the rate of steel (20 X stainless), so that it
gets
>>hot all over and might not warp in moderte thickness.  It is MUCH easier
to
>>cast than steel (Melting Point 650 C vs 1450 C).
>>
>>While aluminum is more expensive than steel, there is a lot of low value
>>scrap around the U.S., and maybe elsewhere.
>>
>>Don't use Al for chimney pipe however, as it will definitely melt with a
hot
>>fire.  The secret to cheap chimneys in the U.S. is thin gauge metal
(usually
>>blued or galvanized) with the edges crimped for assembly on site.  Can be
>>shipped in nested bundles. One end is crimped so that the 3 foot lengths
can
>>be extended to 6, 9, ft etc.  Should last indefinitely if made large
enough
>>so that the 3-6 kW rocket fire doesn't raise above 600C (less than red
heat
>>in the dark).  Too small a chimney will get too hot; too large won't draw.
>>
>>Keep testing ...
>>
>>Yours truly,                TOM REED         BEF STOVEWORKS
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Stuart Conway" <stuart@treeswaterpeople.org>
>>To: "Dean Still" <dstill@epud.net>; "ethos" <ethos@vrac.iastate.edu>
>>Cc: <cindy@treeswaterpeople.org>; "Richard Fox" <twp@treeswaterpeople.org>
>>Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:31 PM
>>Subject: [ethos] Re: Stove Update and Research Needs
>>
>> > Hi Dean et al,
>> >
>> > I agree that we as a group need to do more to expand our stove research
>>and
>> > building efforts. The health effects from indoor and outdoor
>> pollution, as
>> > highlighted in Asia recently, are a dire warning of worse to come
unless
>>we as a
>> > group do all that we can now. That includes reaching out to other
>>organizations
>> > who might be able to either fund our work or do stove projects
>> themselves.
>>I met
>> > recently with staff of PROJECT CONCERN in El Salvador who are
interested
>>in
>> > collaborating with us to build more stoves in that country. Reaching
out
>>and
>> > training other big NGOs like CARE, Catholic Relief Services, and others
>>would
>> > help to build more stoves and help more people.  in many cases, NGOs
>>working in
>> > Latin America are still building LORENA type stoves in their projects.
We
>>need
>> > to make them aware of the new generation of fuel efficient stoves that
>> are
>> > available. Why waste resources?
>> >
>> > I just wanted to point out a few areas of concern on the Justa and
>>EcoStoves and
>> > to point out areas that need more research, based on my recent trip to
>>visit our
>> > stove projects in Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and El Salvador. The
>>planchas
>> > or griddles that we are building on the Justa stoves and EcoStoves are
>>still a
>> > problem. The 1/8" steel that we are currently using has a tendency to
>>warp. When
>> > the griddles start to warp upwards, we are having our stove builders
>> stand
>>on
>> > the griddle the first time that the stove is being fired up. That
>> helps to
>> > contain the warping. However, that is not a good long-term solution.
>> >
>> > PROLENA in Nicaragua has been building a circular 3/8 - 1/4" thick
5 -6"
>> > diameter metal piece that they have been welding onto the bottom of the
>>griddle.
>> > The flame hits the circular addition attached to the griddle and
extends
>>the
>> > life of the griddle. In this case, the stove owner just replaces the
>>circular
>> > piece when it burns out instead of replacing the whole griddle. PROLENA
>>has also
>> > reinforced the griddle with angle iron. In spite of these adaptations,
>>PROLENA
>> > staff are not satisfied with the griddles and are starting to test
using
>>cast
>> > iron. Using cast iron for the griddle of course increases the cost and
>> the
>> > weight of the stoves, but would last much longer. As you know, we are
>>trying to
>> > keep the costs of the stoves low, so that more people can afford to buy
>>them.
>> > So, cost is definitely an issue in any of the proposed solutions.
>> >
>> > As Larry has pointed out previously, the 4" diameter chimneys that are
>>made of
>> > galvanized steel also have a limited life span. The longevity of the
>>chimney
>> > depends on how often the women is using her stove and how well she
>> > maintains/cleans her chimney. Dona Justa has been using her stove for
3+
>>years
>> > now, and has the same chimney. However, women who make and sell
tortillas
>>will
>> > have to replace their chimneys sooner, due to higher rates of usage. As
>>long as
>> > the chimneys are available locally, women/families can just purchase
and
>>replace
>> > their chimneys as needed. In more remote rural areas, buying spare
>> chimney
>>parts
>> > can be difficult. So, the chimneys are another area of where further R
>> & D
>>would
>> > be helpful.
>> >
>> > The last area of concern is the Rocket elbow, the combustion chamber of
>>the
>> > stove. The hand made ceramic elbows have been holding up fairly well so
>>far,
>> > altough PROLENA and AHDESA in Honduras both report some problems with
>>breakage
>> > if the women jam in the firewood too far or too hard. Mostly, the
problem
>>has
>> > been that a high quality clay is needed to withstand the heat, so that
>>sources
>> > for the Rocket elbows in each country are limited. The high costs of
>>tranport
>> > and breakage in route are drawbacks. In Honduras, using wood ash for
>>insulation
>> > is working all right, but has maintenance and performance issues, as
the
>>level
>> > of the wood ash needs to be maintained or the stoves lose some of their
>>fuel
>> > efficiency.  So, improved models of the Rocket elbows would be a
welcome
>> > addition. Aprovecho is currrently working on a some experimental models
>>with
>> > refractory cement and other materials. I encourage the effort.
>> >
>> > Stuart Conway
>> > Trees, Water & People
>> >
>> > Dean Still wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dear ETHOS,
>> > >
>> > > Hearing about clouds of bad air in Asia, killing untold thousands of
>>people,
>> > > caused in part by cooking stoves, wood burning in general, reinforces
>>for me
>> > > that we already know that even a simple, inexpensive combustion
>> chamber,
>> > > like the Rocket,  can decrease pollution. We need to inform people,
>> find
>> > > easier, more practical ways to build many stoves, create insulative
>>bricks,
>> > > etc.
>> > >
>> > > This report also lends a real sense of urgency to our efforts to
learn
>>how
>> > > to burn biomass as cleanly as possible. Only a few people are
>> working on
>> > > this problem! The answer must be practical, easy for governments, aid
>> > > agencies to adapt, easy to teach, and liked by the user.
>> > >
>> > > We are getting closer every year. The Ecostove, the HELPS stove, the
>>Chiapas
>> > > Rocket, the double burner South African Rocket, 2 burner stoves, are
>> all
>> > > great stoves. But hearing that such a serious problem exists in Asia
>> > > certainly reinforces the seriosness of our quest: to invent,
>>disseminate,
>> > > improve stoves.
>> > >
>> > >  We are in a position of responsibility and I can't think of anyone
in
>>the
>> > > world who is in a better position to help than us.
>> > >
>> > > Kind of scary...
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > >
>> > > Dean
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Rogerio Miranda <rmiranda@entelnet.bo>
>> > > To: stuart@treeswaterpeople.org <stuart@treeswaterpeople.org>;
>> > > dstill@epud.net <dstill@epud.net>; ronallarson@qwest.net
>> > > <ronallarson@qwest.net>
>> > > Date: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:51 PM
>> > > Subject: ecostove on BBC
>> > >
>> > > >Hi Stuart, Ron and Dean: I was surprise tonite when I saw myself on
>> BBC
>> > > >World news (Earth Report). I was expecting some notice from the
>> TVE(the
>> > > >documentary agency), but it seems that they forgot to tell me.
Anyway,
>>if
>> > > >you have a chance to see BBC Earth report today, perhaps they will
>>replay
>> > > >the documentary. It is a bout children  exposed to hazard
>> > > >environment  conditions, and the last part include Ecostove. I will
>> try
>>to
>> > > >get hold of a copy and share with you.  Good timing, when every news
>>agency
>> > > >is reporting about the brown cloud over South Asia.
>> > > >
>> > > >Go rocket stove.
>> > > >
>> > > >Rogerio
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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