RE: vegetable oil as fuel

["Ray" <raywije@eureka.lk>]

I greatly appreciated your response, Dr Karve, to the question how we
'dispose' of waste vegetable oil... That question was sadly a very 'affluent
nation' attitude and the cause of much of the pollution we ALL suffer, as we
(in other parts of the under-developed world) also tend to emulate such
practises (waste disposal rather than waste-conversion) believing that to be
'modern'.

I was also very 'with' your observations regarding the future of methane..
natural-gas etc. It has hitherto been a problem to transport over long
distances requiring compression (CNG) and even freezing (LNG)...Not for
long, 'though! I've been attending a conference in Britain on airship
technology (I have a 'crush' for flying machines!) where SHELL described its
trials with VAST airships...many times the size of the Hindenberg and even
the Titanic... carrying NG (very much LTA (lighter-than-air) at almost
atmospheric pressure inside and used even for powering the engines. These
require no compression or liquifying and can carry it straight from the well
to the end-user... no port-facilities, no pipes,.. all for a fraction of the
cost even of compressing. NG (mainly CH4) is just one step from the
Hydrogen-energy era and being so much  lighter than air... hence this unique
method of transport. Folks may ask "What about the danger of airships such
as Hindenberg catching fire?" ... All airship people are now convinced that
it was the outer covering of the Hindenberg which caught fire (in an
electrical storm)and the H2 was probably the last to combust... and then it
would have 'whoofed' into steam/water ... not the clouds of flame and smoke
which the pictures show of the butyl-fabric catching fire. Please pardon the
deviation away from priorities towards combustion in stoves!

Ray Wijewardene, Colombo, Sri Lanka.


-----Original Message-----
From: A.D. Karve [mailto:adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:31 PM
To: Harmon Seaver
Cc: stoves@crest.org
Subject: vegetable oil as fuel


Dear Mr. Seaver,
we never had any waste vegetable oil in India.  When we deep fry something
and a little bit of it is left over, it is poured out carefully and used
again. I have heard about the epoxides and other nasty things that such an
oil contains, but we reuse it in any case. Now that McDonalds have come into
India, we may start getting waste vegetable oil, but it would most probably
be used by other eateries in the poorer sections of the town. Because India
is chronically short of vegetable oil, the organised soap industry is not
allowed to use edible oils. The non-edible oils, except for castor oil and
Jatropha oil,  have generally a very dark colour, and generally also bad
smell. Since they cannot be used as such for soap making,  nonedible oils
are broken up into their component fatty acids, which are distilled to
purify them. It is these fatty acids that the soap industry uses. As far as
fuel for internal combustion engines is concerned, people in India have
already started using biogas and producer gas for stationary engines. In not
too distant a future, biologically produced methane may become available as
compressed gas to be used as automotive fuel. The beauty of methane is that
it can be produced from any organic waste and the procedure is so simple
that even an illiterate villager can produce methane in his backyard.
A.D.Karve
-----Original Message-----
From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver@cybershamanix.com>
To: A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
Cc: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>;
Stumpf@495-simon.ats.uni-hohenheim.de
<Stumpf@495-simon.ats.uni-hohenheim.de>
Date: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Pressure stove using vegetable oil


>On Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 01:00:08AM +0530, A.D. Karve wrote:
>> Dear Ron,
>> if one used vegetable oil as fuel, one would be depriving humans of a
high
>> calory item of food, and the soap and paint industry of its oils.
>
>    That depends upon where you are, the making of biodiesel out of
vegetable
>oil is definitely becoming a hot commercial venture in Europe, Canada, and
the
>US. Or just running diesels on straight vegetable oil, with some slight
>modifications of the vehicle. There is, at present, a tremendous amount of
waste
>vegetable oil (WVO) from deep frying that goes into landfills and should be
>instead used for fuel. I just recently bought a diesel van with the express
>purpose of running it on biodiesel and SVO (straight vegetable oil) and
intend
>to never buy another gasoline fueled vehicle.
>   What do people in India do with the WVO? Also there are vegetable oils
which
>do not make good food.
>
>--
>Harmon Seaver
>CyberShamanix
>http://www.cybershamanix.com
>


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