Re: vegetable oil as fuel

[Harmon Seaver <hseaver@cybershamanix.com>]

On Tue, Oct 01, 2002 at 10:46:53AM +0600, Ray wrote:
> I greatly appreciated your response, Dr Karve, to the question how we
> 'dispose' of waste vegetable oil... That question was sadly a very 'affluent
> nation' attitude 

   On the contrary, I really don't think my question was in any way an "affluent
nation" attitude. Vegetable oil is reused here as well, but there comes a point
when it definitely is not good for cooking anymore. I'm sure that Dr. Karve is
correct in saying that in India (and I'm sure other countries) the oil from the
better restaurants then goes to poorer ones, or perhaps to individuals, but that
was my question, which he answered. 
   The point was that many of us are trying to reuse the waste oil much of which
now goes to landfills here in the US, by turning it into fuel. This has a many
benefits -- it keeps it out of the landfills, and doesn't pollute when we drive,
and decreases dependance on fossil fuels. It also helps decrease the need for
the US to attack other nations like Iraq so they can steal their oil.

>and the cause of much of the pollution we ALL suffer, as we
> (in other parts of the under-developed world) also tend to emulate such
> practises (waste disposal rather than waste-conversion) believing that to be
> 'modern'.
> 
> I was also very 'with' your observations regarding the future of methane..
> natural-gas etc. It has hitherto been a problem to transport over long
> distances requiring compression (CNG) and even freezing (LNG)...Not for
> long, 'though! I've been attending a conference in Britain on airship
> technology (I have a 'crush' for flying machines!) where SHELL described its
> trials with VAST airships...many times the size of the Hindenberg and even
> the Titanic... carrying NG (very much LTA (lighter-than-air) at almost
> atmospheric pressure inside and used even for powering the engines. These
> require no compression or liquifying and can carry it straight from the well
> to the end-user... no port-facilities, no pipes,.. all for a fraction of the
> cost even of compressing. NG (mainly CH4) is just one step from the
> Hydrogen-energy era and being so much  lighter than air... hence this unique
> method of transport.

   Yes, producer gas from biomass gasification can be transported the same way. 


>  Folks may ask "What about the danger of airships such
> as Hindenberg catching fire?" ... All airship people are now convinced that
> it was the outer covering of the Hindenberg which caught fire (in an
> electrical storm)and the H2 was probably the last to combust... and then it
> would have 'whoofed' into steam/water ... not the clouds of flame and smoke
> which the pictures show of the butyl-fabric catching fire. Please pardon the
> deviation away from priorities towards combustion in stoves!
> 
> Ray Wijewardene, Colombo, Sri Lanka.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A.D. Karve [mailto:adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in]
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:31 PM
> To: Harmon Seaver
> Cc: stoves@crest.org
> Subject: vegetable oil as fuel
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Seaver,
> we never had any waste vegetable oil in India.  When we deep fry something
> and a little bit of it is left over, it is poured out carefully and used
> again. I have heard about the epoxides and other nasty things that such an
> oil contains, but we reuse it in any case. Now that McDonalds have come into
> India, we may start getting waste vegetable oil, but it would most probably
> be used by other eateries in the poorer sections of the town. Because India
> is chronically short of vegetable oil, the organised soap industry is not
> allowed to use edible oils. The non-edible oils, except for castor oil and
> Jatropha oil,  have generally a very dark colour, and generally also bad
> smell. Since they cannot be used as such for soap making,  nonedible oils
> are broken up into their component fatty acids, which are distilled to
> purify them. It is these fatty acids that the soap industry uses. As far as
> fuel for internal combustion engines is concerned, people in India have
> already started using biogas and producer gas for stationary engines. In not
> too distant a future, biologically produced methane may become available as
> compressed gas to be used as automotive fuel. The beauty of methane is that
> it can be produced from any organic waste and the procedure is so simple
> that even an illiterate villager can produce methane in his backyard.
> A.D.Karve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver@cybershamanix.com>
> To: A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
> Cc: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>;
> Stumpf@495-simon.ats.uni-hohenheim.de
> <Stumpf@495-simon.ats.uni-hohenheim.de>
> Date: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Pressure stove using vegetable oil
> 
> 
> >On Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 01:00:08AM +0530, A.D. Karve wrote:
> >> Dear Ron,
> >> if one used vegetable oil as fuel, one would be depriving humans of a
> high
> >> calory item of food, and the soap and paint industry of its oils.
> >
> >    That depends upon where you are, the making of biodiesel out of
> vegetable
> >oil is definitely becoming a hot commercial venture in Europe, Canada, and
> the
> >US. Or just running diesels on straight vegetable oil, with some slight
> >modifications of the vehicle. There is, at present, a tremendous amount of
> waste
> >vegetable oil (WVO) from deep frying that goes into landfills and should be
> >instead used for fuel. I just recently bought a diesel van with the express
> >purpose of running it on biodiesel and SVO (straight vegetable oil) and
> intend
> >to never buy another gasoline fueled vehicle.
> >   What do people in India do with the WVO? Also there are vegetable oils
> which
> >do not make good food.
> >
> >--
> >Harmon Seaver
> >CyberShamanix
> >http://www.cybershamanix.com
> >
> 
> 
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> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
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> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
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-- 
Harmon Seaver	
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

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Stoves List Archives and Website:
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http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
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Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com

Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon

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