Re: vegetable oil for running diesel engines

[nariphaltan <nariphaltan@sancharnet.in>]

Hello!

I fully agree with you. We did a study in India where we showed  that it is
possible to take care of energy needs completely by biomass and its various
derivatives for a block of about 100 villages. You can access the study at;
http://education.vsnl.com/nimbkar/taluka.html

Cheers.

Dr. Anil K. Rajvanshi
Director
Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute
P.O.Box 44, Phaltan - 415523
Maharashtra, INDIA
Ph: 91-2166-222396/220945

http://www.nariphaltan.org
http://nariphaltan.virtualave.net
E-mail:nariphaltan@sancharnet.in
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Addison" <keith@journeytoforever.org>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: vegetable oil for running diesel engines


> >Dear Peter,
> >Everybody is talking about substituting diesel with vegetable oils but
the
> >quantities available would not suffice to satisfy the demand. I confirm
your
> >statement about the availability of tree oils in the tropics, but the
ones
> >listed by you, e.g. coconut and oil palm, are grown on plantations, and
> >therefore costly.  There are atleast 50 oilseed bearing trees in India,
that
> >grow wild. Their seed is available free of cost to anybody, who has the
time
> >and patience to collect them in the forest. They produce non-edible oil,
> >which costs only half as much as the edible one, because the tree seeds
are
> >available free of cost. The non-edible oils are used mainly for soap
making.
> >For increasing the supply of these oils, these trees would have to be
grown
> >on a plantation scale, and then they too would become as costly as the
> >edible oils because of the agronomic inputs that the farmer has to use. I
> >feel that producer gas or biogas would be better options than vegetable
oil
> >for running diesel engines. Both of these fuels can be produced from
> >agricultural waste, which is readily available at a negligible cost.
> >Dr.A.D.Karve
> >President,
> >Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> >Pune, India
>
> Hello Dr Karve
>
> We often encounter this argument at the Biofuel list, not only about
> India, but about just about any country you care to name, or the
> world at large.
>
> There are several points to be made. One, especially for the Western
> countries, is that mere substitution of fossil fuels with biofuels is
> not the answer, or perhaps not even the right question: maximum
> reductions in energy use are also required, along with maximumum
> increases in energy-use efficiency, which tends to change the picture
> more than somewhat. Something else we all feel is essential is
> decentralization of supply. Not only does it not make sense to use
> energy to transport energy long distances to localities where many
> types of local resources lie unused, but in many instances local
> supply can be much more efficient, exploiting many niches and local
> opportunities that simply don't begin to figure in a centralised
> supply scenario.
>
> Food supply provides a good comparison, though different to the one
> you make, of having to "industrialize" biofuel crop production to
> make the fuel available. Consider instead the situation with city
> farms - city farms produce at least 15% of the world's food supply
> (food that is, the stuff people eat, not just agricultural
> commodities to be traded), and do it without using any farmland at
> all, nor agronomic inputs. The other spin-off benefits for the local
> people involved, both producers and consumers, are considerable, and
> it also accomplishes a great deal of waste recycling that many of
> these cities would not otherwise be able to accomplish, probably
> preventing great increases in disease and loss of water quality.
>
> This scenario could quite easily be adapted to produce large amounts
> of biofuels locally for local use. It should not be limited to just
> one fuel - vegetable oil for diesels in this case. Ethanol can quite
> easily be produced locally from food wastes and garbage, leaving a
> residue which can be used to feed livestock (lots of pigs, ducks and
> chickens in city backyards), or as fertilizer for crops when
> composted, and once again optimizing waste recycling. Biogas is of
> course a further option. These fuels should be complementary, not
> competitors. So should all the various crops and plants with fuel
> capabilities, rather than just focusing on one or two, the way a
> centralized industry - or government! - will do. And of course waste
> recycling is only ever really optimized at the local level anyway.
>
> The organic farms now so popular in the western countries, and in
> India, mostly use technology developed in India by Sir Albert Howard
> in the 1920s and 30s, much of which he learnt from the Indian
> peasants (his professors, as he called them). These are mixed,
> integrated farms with very low or zero agronomic inputs from outside
> the farm. Yields are the same or higher, costs lower, externalized
> costs zero. Much home-grown and home-produced fuel can be produced on
> such a farm via an ever-changing series of by-products and waste
> products, enough to power the farm and its vehicles, and more
> besides. A local cooperative of such farms can provide enough for a
> small local market, partly, largely, or completely from by-products,
> without exclusive use of much or any farmland. I've just been
> discussing these possibilities with two farmers, one in the US and
> one in Botswana. Farmers often ask these questions, many are doing it.
>
> There are so many opportunities for this kind of approach. If a small
> town planted jatropha or other oilseed-brearing trees along its
> sidewalks, in its open areas, along its sidings and so on, instead of
> decorative trees or whatever, they'd be able to provide a lot of
> good, clean fuel for local public transport and utility vehicles, as
> well as local employment and other spin-off benefits for the local
> economy.
>
> I think India is particularly well suited to such approaches.
>
> Again, producing gas or biogas from agricultural waste as you suggest
> is one option, but I don't see this as an either-or choice. There's
> room for everything, depending on the local situation, and the "best"
> answer will very often be a combination of approaches. I do rather
> argue against the whole concept of agricultural "waste" however. Is
> there really such a thing? - or of there is, should there continue to
> be? It speaks too loudly of soil deprivation, of neglectful and
> unsustainable production methods. At least with biogas there is a
> resultant sludge which, though troublesome, can be returned to the
> soil with benefit. The on-farm schemes I've suggested above of course
> include such measures. In cities, wastes are diverted to use,
> therefore are not wastes but raw materials, by-products are utilized
> as stockfeed or fertilizer, and livestock wastes as fertilizer -
> that's sustainable.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Osaka, Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200209/
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
>
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
>
> List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
> >
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm
>



-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200209/
http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com

Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon

List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
>
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm