Re: SB: Re: Re:360 reasons to build with SB

[Sebastian Gunner <sebg@optushome.com.au>]

on 23/2/01 6:31 PM, Bill Hunt at billhunt@redrock.net wrote:

> (Snipped from Garazgos)
>> The PILE of materials to erect the shell of a house in most parts of NA
>> can cost as little as $20 psf. This cost will be pretty much the same
>> whether it gets put together by a gaggle of chimpanzees, a herd of
>> Occidental Barbarian owner/builders or a team of super-skilled Ninja
>> professional builders.
> 
> Chimpanzees have 99% of human DNA, so Occidental Barbarians clearly benefit
> from any comparisons to such intelligent creatures ;-).
> 
> (back to Straw Wolf)
>> Not only that but we have now conducted four workshops on our buildings
> and
>> in actual fact we are showing a small profit after all costs including
> the
>> cost of the half acre Golden Ganmain Village block.  An added bonus was
> the
>> fact that the earth from the footings is being used as the render mix
> along
>> with Golden Ganmain chaff of course.  So a total area of 2,000 square
> feet
>> costing less than $20,000 Aus can be achieved.  The secret is SMALL load
>> bearing buildings, which if designed well should suit most climates
> including
>> colder areas of the planet.
> 
> This is extraordinary- Good going, Straw Wolf!
> 
>> So we are building
>> the four pavilions which will be joined by covered and in some cases
> enclosed
>> walkways for less than $10/square foot Aus or $5.50/sq.' USA.  That is
>> today's 2001 prices.
>> 
> Let me just comment that many such low costs one hears quoted do not
> include the labor of owner builders, volunteers, workshop workers, etc.
> Strawbale, especially the plaster, is quite labor intensive. Exaggerated
> cost savings and ease of building have come back to haunt a number of
> strawbale owner/builders, especially when they get carried away with the
> "art project".  Strawbale seems to attract artistic, very creative people
> who may need a little reality check from time to time ;-). Here in the U.S.
> in a code inspected area, for a comparable  level of finish, I feel
> strawbale costs more than standard frame. I know a custom home designer in
> Tucson who's done dozens of strawbale houses.   "SB  usually costs 5-7%
> more".  
> 
> That said, to really compare apples to apples, you can't compare SB to 2x4
> stick or manufactured homes.  Compare to a well-insulated wall system with
> some mass inside.  Costs in this comparison may be a wash.  The design is
> *critical* to maximize the potential of bales. Most designs I've seen, or
> worked on as a carpenter over the past 9 years, have been massively
> overbuilt. Most were the "first one the architect did". The one in Redstone
> would be a prime example, with 18" diameter log posts exposed on the inside
> *and* outside.  That is, stacks of bales *between* enormous posts (with
> checks in the posts).  Not good thermally, to say the least.  Making
> architectural statements in straw is going to be expensive.
> 
> Oh, adobe? In cold country, I think you need some insulation.  The endless
> poorly heated adobe villages in the Peruvian Andes come to mind. I wish I
> could think of some way to help those people out. There are no bales in the
> mountains that I saw, no balers either.  There is some straw. Not much
> wood,  considerable poverty.  Passive solar has strange sun angles, being
> rather near the equator.  Glass is scarce.  Still, some passive solar might
> be something to look at...
> 
> Ummmmm...back to our abundance of choices here in wealthy North America....
>  If you're in a warm climate adobe could make more sense than SB.

I wouldn't have thought so.  Adobe is has a thermal mass as a result it
heats up.  At night in summer in most parts of Aus it gets cool again.  What
is needed it a design that lets the cool night air through at night and
Straw Bale not having much thermal mass except the plaster will not work
against this cooling.  Come day you close the house up and keep the heat
out.  In winter the sun is lower hopefully you have a design that allows the
sun to fall on an insulated slab and a wall of thermal massive material.  It
will help keep the house warmer at night.

Basically it just seems logical to use a highly insulating material on the
outer wall of a house.  Extending this to some internal walls means that one
can retreat to smaller spaces in need be without having to heat an entire
house.

> What
> are your local materials? Does SB have to come a few hundred miles, and
> adobe soil is underfoot? In Mt. Pleasant, the farmer drove the bales over
> in his bale wagon for the 1/4 mile  trip. 1.00 a bale, delivered :-).
> 

There is no "the truth" there is only perhaps, distance time and form.

Sebastian