Re: SB: Re: Re:360 reasons to build with SB

["Bill Hunt" <billhunt@redrock.net>]

> >  If you're in a warm climate adobe could make more sense than SB.

[Hi Sebastian (who wrote, in part)]- 
> I wouldn't have thought so.  Adobe is has a thermal mass as a result it
> heats up.  At night in summer in most parts of Aus it gets cool again.  

These are conditions where adobe has worked well for thousands of years. If
it gets cool at night, hot in the day, the thermal mass averages it out.
Strawbale can work well too, as the Steens have been showing. Depends on
the locally available materials, and what you want to do, I suppose.
Strawbales generally require fossil fuel powered balers, whereas adobe and
cob have a very ancient tradition, and really epitomize environmentally
friendly construction in many ways.  Many native american earthen dwellings
have melted back into the earth, leaving no trace of their presence. 


G ' day Straw Wolf-

> Let me just comment that many such low costs one hears quoted do not
> include the labor of owner builders, volunteers, workshop workers, etc.

Yes you are right here but why do we have to cost everything when it can be
done with help from friends relations and neighbours or workshop
participants.
(snip)

Sounds like you are doing wonderful work, and it is inspiring to hear about
it.  I have talked to alot of people, though, who have very unrealistic
expectations about the low cost and ease of building with bales. Numbers
like $5.50 U.S./square foot are drastically unrealistic, and perpetuate
these unrealistic expectations.  Your projects are heavily  labor
subsidized , as well as the other subsidies you mentioned from the
government, solar manufacturers, etc. You are clearly good at organizing
workshops, and getting people to pay to come and do construction work. 
This is not an easy thing to do.  To *plan* on having costs offset by
workshops is unrealistic, and can jepoardize a project.  (This is not
really directed at Mr. Straw Wolf, but rather to newbies, lurkers, and the
greater SB community that may be planning/dreaming about a house of straw
:-). Straw is *not* a forgiving medium to let sit around with the roof or
walls unfinished because you ran out of money, or couldn't get enough
volunteers to show up and work.  This has plagued some Habitat for Humanity
strawbale projects, and others I have heard of, where bale walls and straw
clay walls had to be torn out because they got wet from unfinished roofs.  

In code enforced areas in the United States, at least, strawbale is not any
cheaper than standard construction. I hear fairly realistic numbers around
40 to $65/sq. ft, *not* counting all the owner builder labor, for
strawbale.  That may be with a number of work parties for the plaster.   A
reasonably designed, passive solar, smallish project I heard about
recently, that will contract out the majority of the labor, is shooting for
$80/sq. ft.  Manufactured homes in rural Utah cost  that, or more.  

Time is money.  Labor time should at least be acknowledged, so newbies have
an inkling of what they may be getting themselves into. We are not talking
about a few weekends of chores, to get your strawbale house done. One
highly skilled owner/builder I know spent the better part of a year,
*full-time*, with a paid helper, and some sub-contracted phases, building
his house.  He is a professional plasterer, mason, etc.  

The unavoidable costs of some type of foundation, roof, plaster, etc,
(especially in snow country) are why building small is so important if you
want to keep costs down.  I would like to see some more duplexes,
triplexes, and rows of townhouses, which could all be passive solar, and
share a garden, orchard, etc.  This greatly reduces the cost of land, and
would greatly help affordability.  Simple, buildable design that has been
tried and proven is so important. Enough for now.

Cheers- WasatchBill