Re: SB: Re: Re:360 reasons to build with SB

[Sebastian Gunner <sebg@optushome.com.au>]

on 24/2/01 6:16 PM, Bill Hunt at billhunt@redrock.net wrote:

> 
> 
>>>  If you're in a warm climate adobe could make more sense than SB.
> 
> [Hi Sebastian (who wrote, in part)]-
>> I wouldn't have thought so.  Adobe is has a thermal mass as a result it
>> heats up.  At night in summer in most parts of Aus it gets cool again.
> 
> These are conditions where adobe has worked well for thousands of years. If
> it gets cool at night, hot in the day, the thermal mass averages it out.
> Strawbale can work well too, as the Steens have been showing. Depends on
> the locally available materials, and what you want to do, I suppose.
There is one scenario in the weather here that doesn't bode will for Adobe
type thermal mass.  We will often get stretches of Hot weather that blow in
off the desert for days.  The night doesn't get cool 30
> Strawbales generally require fossil fuel powered balers, whereas adobe and
> cob have a very ancient tradition, and really epitomize environmentally
> friendly construction in many ways.  Many native american earthen dwellings
> have melted back into the earth, leaving no trace of their presence.
> 
> 
> G ' day Straw Wolf-
> 
>> Let me just comment that many such low costs one hears quoted do not
>> include the labor of owner builders, volunteers, workshop workers, etc.
> 
> Yes you are right here but why do we have to cost everything when it can be
> done with help from friends relations and neighbours or workshop
> participants.
> (snip)
> 
> Sounds like you are doing wonderful work, and it is inspiring to hear about
> it.  I have talked to alot of people, though, who have very unrealistic
> expectations about the low cost and ease of building with bales. Numbers
> like $5.50 U.S./square foot are drastically unrealistic, and perpetuate
> these unrealistic expectations.  Your projects are heavily  labor
> subsidized , as well as the other subsidies you mentioned from the
> government, solar manufacturers, etc. You are clearly good at organizing
> workshops, and getting people to pay to come and do construction work.
> This is not an easy thing to do.  To *plan* on having costs offset by
> workshops is unrealistic, and can jepoardize a project.  (This is not
> really directed at Mr. Straw Wolf, but rather to newbies, lurkers, and the
> greater SB community that may be planning/dreaming about a house of straw
> :-). Straw is *not* a forgiving medium to let sit around with the roof or
> walls unfinished because you ran out of money, or couldn't get enough
> volunteers to show up and work.  This has plagued some Habitat for Humanity
> strawbale projects, and others I have heard of, where bale walls and straw
> clay walls had to be torn out because they got wet from unfinished roofs.
> 
> In code enforced areas in the United States, at least, strawbale is not any
> cheaper than standard construction. I hear fairly realistic numbers around
> 40 to $65/sq. ft, *not* counting all the owner builder labor, for
> strawbale.  That may be with a number of work parties for the plaster.   A
> reasonably designed, passive solar, smallish project I heard about
> recently, that will contract out the majority of the labor, is shooting for
> $80/sq. ft.  Manufactured homes in rural Utah cost  that, or more.
> 
> Time is money.  Labor time should at least be acknowledged, so newbies have
> an inkling of what they may be getting themselves into. We are not talking
> about a few weekends of chores, to get your strawbale house done. One
> highly skilled owner/builder I know spent the better part of a year,
> *full-time*, with a paid helper, and some sub-contracted phases, building
> his house.  He is a professional plasterer, mason, etc.
> 
> The unavoidable costs of some type of foundation, roof, plaster, etc,
> (especially in snow country) are why building small is so important if you
> want to keep costs down.  I would like to see some more duplexes,
> triplexes, and rows of townhouses, which could all be passive solar, and
> share a garden, orchard, etc.  This greatly reduces the cost of land, and
> would greatly help affordability.  Simple, buildable design that has been
> tried and proven is so important. Enough for now.
> 
> Cheers- WasatchBill
> 
>