SB: re: prefer off list

[Hank Carr <hank@dna.ca>]

Jo,

> OK, so I am going to weigh in on this as well. This list can be quite
> uncivil. Sometimes the jibes are meant to be delivered in a tongue in
> cheek form, but aren't taken that way. So lots of times,  folks like me
> reply to a query off list rather than suffer the slings and arrows.

Anita and I were rather shocked at the overwhealmingly negative response
to her initial request for information.  What she asked was if anyone
had done it, not if anyone would do it.  I waited for a couple of days
before wading into the fray to try to understand the lay of the land. 
We have had a large number of off list responses the majority of which
have been positive and supportive.  I do not see this list or it's
participants as being either unwelcoming of negative.  I feel that the
opinions expressed by several of the big players as being very valuable,
though I don't agree with them.  The discussion has been at times
sarcastic and snippy, at times exhasperating, and at other times
informative and intelligent.  I see this discussion as a clash of strong
personalities and strong ideas that will help those less informed than
Anita and I and less experienced that Bill and John and Rob and others
(Anita and I definitely fall into the later category.)  I think that it
can be intimidating, kind of like sticking your opinion into a sack off
angry cats.  Youch!

> There was a time when all opinions were welcome and readers were expected
> to figure out for themselves whether advice was trustworthy or not.
> Lately we all seem to be expected to deliver a "proven" formula for every
> statement we make. 

Anita, Ben, and I have asked for evidence to support some of the
opinions expresses.  Without evidence to support an opinion it is only
that, an opinion.  I have posted two references to support two of my
positions (the LB capacity of the precompressed Nebraska wall system and
the amount of CO2 produced in the cement manufacturing process) because 
I believed that providing the evidence for others would help the
discussion.  If you ask me for my opinion and then ask me to support
that opinion, I will not be offended.  This is the foundation of the
debating system.

> Fact is those of us who have done a building or two know what works for
> us. I wouldn't stack bales on edge, because that hasn't been as
> satisfactory for us, but I wouldn't begin to tell someone else it can't
> be done, because I too saw that picture of the 100 year old house.

Neither would we tell anyone that they should not build post and beam or
modified post and beam infill because we moose huggers have made edge
stacking work.  Anita asked if anyone else was doing it and got more
than she bargained for.  Those opinions, and the challenges we have
faced during this lively discussion will greatly assist in our efforts
with the CBO tomorrow morning and we thank everyone for their positions,
for and against, on list and off.

[...]

> I think we will have a more open discussion forum if we can go back to a
> modicum of respect for each other. It also might help if those of you who
> are "gurus"  write yourself a signature line so that newbies will have a
> clue who you are. In the same manner, those who (have read a lot,
> participated in the list a lot, but) are not yet experienced in actual
> building, tag your comments as well. All opinions are still viable, but
> its easier to keep it straight.

I felt, and said so, that I thought that one of the mistakes that Anita
and I made was not introducing ourselves before posting.  I did feel
that there was a bit of head patting going on at first but that it
quickly ended once we established that we were here for a discussion.

We have learned a great deal from everyone stories of success and
failure.  We very much value all of the information everyone has
provided about their experiences and their buildings.  We have asked for
evidence when the opinions expressed were contrary to our research
and/or our direct experience because we wanted to know what they knew
that we didn't.

Hank.

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