SB: Re: Re: Thanks and Fw.

["Trkstr" <trkstr@hotmail.com>]

Holly Cow!

My gosh.  In the last 5 years, as a member of the list, questions ARE
answered off the list when a short answer on the list isn't enough or the
question is naive.

Any time someone needed more information they just asked again.  No biggy.
I have picture the list as a place to start and end.  Kinda like an ACA
meeting.

Once you have gone through the process then you offer what you have learned
for others to investigate/know/use/etc.

A little question just out of curiosity, who are the 'big guys' and what is
the 'big guy' assumption based on?

Virtual big guys?  I love it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitch Wapner" <paradoxfarm@juno.com>
To: <Strawbale@crest.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:11 AM
Subject: SB: Re: Thanks and Fw.


> As I see it, the problem is that you wanted your questions answered, but
> did not
> want any opinions or advice or other comments. You failed to clearly
> state this, on a list where advice and opinions are routinely offered.
> You offended people by then disregarding their advice, and challenging
> their opinions! Obviously, SB construction is still experimental, and
> opinions are plentiful and (may or) may not have research
> to support or prove their validity at this time. The research you are
> doing is quite
> valuable!! So in the interest of advancing the science of SB, it would
> really help if
> you reported your "data/results" ON the LIST!! Likewise, the folks who
> are asking
> "great questions" OFF-LIST should be encouraged to use the list! By the
> way, in
> the 5 months I've been reading the list I don't think I've seen (til now)
> anyone treated
> "very badly"!
> Mitch
>
>  LOTS of  <SNIP>       Hank wrote:
> > The problem is that we were not accepting,
> > not that we weren't listening.  Unfortunately, no one ever did us the
> > courtesy of responding to our questions so  It wasn't that we weren't
> listening but that others weren't bothering to respond.
> > Anita was very upset that no one responded to her question about the
> > assertion made comparing straw bales to bricks.  It went ignored for
> > almost two weeks.  More important than the fact that no one responded
> > was the fact that no one noticed and commented on the fact that no one
> > responded.  Needless to say, she feels that it was the big names on the
> > list who were not listening.
>
> > I strive to maintain polite language and  non confrontational tone
> when
> > writing.  I was being insistent with the big boys because they WERE
> > providing lots of information but it was NOT topical.  We weren't
> trying
> > to prove that anyone was wrong but asking the acknowledged experts to
> > tell us what the mistakes were in our assumptions.  They seemed to take
> > great offense to the fact that we asked them to support their
> positions.
>
>
> > That is the cost of a mob mentality.  People with different ideas,
> different  >experience, and different visions are beaten down as infidels
> by the establishment.
> > That last couple of days I asked a very clear, very simple question.
> > The response that I got COMPLETELY ignored by question and instead
> > pontificated.  I asked a very simple rebuttal question and was answered
> > with angry obscenities.  In the end, all but two of the responses I got
> > to my questions came off list.
> >
> > At the same time that was going on, John Kingsley was providing a great
> > deal of useful and topical information.  He provided links to web pages
> > with studies, and a great deal of analysis based on personal
> experience.  THAT is > what the list should be about if people are going
> to gain the most benefit.
>
> >  I don't think that anyone on the list was offended by anything that I
> wrote.  I think >they were offended by the fact that I didn't accept
> everything that I was told without >question.  I could see that the list
> was degenerating into a mud slinging match and >since we really weren't
> getting the information from people like Bill that we
> > wanted, we decided to make a polite and graceful exit.
> >
> > I think we were sent to the list because the two big Canadian
> > builders were being treated very badly, like we were, and they hoped
> that we
> > could prompt some discussion where they were ignored and attacked.In
> fact, they >have suffered quite a bit of off list nastiness as a result
> of our three weeks on the >list.  The people who hold themselves up as
>  worthy of reverence surely are not.
> >
> > The saddest thing for us is the fact that people were asking great
> > questions of us off list
>
> > Hank.
>
>
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