SB: Re: Smelly earthen floor (OT)

[John Salmen <terrain@shaw.ca>]

amazing how little of the culture of building we have retained.  Despite the
science of building I think we have forgotten more than we will ever learn.

I'm constantly looking for information on rotting straw (there has to be a
good side). One of the interesting things about rotting straw is that it
produces humic acid which in combination with sunlight produces hydrogen
peroxide - its been used for a while to control algae growth in ponds.  Not
that much is known about humic acids and how they work - but they are being
used increasingly for everything from a fertilizer alternative to
bioremediation. Uv itself is used effectively to kill mold so it was
interesting to hear of the affect of sunlight on rotting straw - you may
consider putting in UV lights for a while. You have to be careful around
molds, it is fairly easy to become sensitized and dead mold spores can be
just as problematic as live.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Roemer" <barbandg@onemain.com>
To: "John Swearingen" <john@skillful-means.com>; "John Salmen"
<terrain@shaw.ca>; <strawbale@crest.org>; <ArchiLogic@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Smelly earthen floor (OT)


> Many thanks to those on this list, including John, Royce, Rob, John, Kenn,
> and others, and those on the cob list who responded regarding our smelly
> floor.  I received lots of good advice, but perhaps of most value is the
> reminder that it's useful to slow down, consider conditions attendant to
the
> problem, and look for the less obvious.  We'll sprinkle on lime, leave the
> door open, watch the mold to see if the area increases, work on the
> foundation drainage, and bank on better weather.  (After an 80 degree
week,
> we had 6 inches of snow quite suddenly, though temps are rising to normal
> daytime 50's now.)  Perhaps of interest is some sketchy information I
> received from Darel Henman on the cob list.
>
> I thought Darel had mentioned that Japanese builders intentionally let
straw
> ferment in their floors.  Though the chemistry of it still doesn't make
> sense to me, he explained further the process of gradually adding straw to
> the already fermenting straw in cob for use on walls:
>
> "They don't put it in floors.
>
> They use it for daubbing (cob) onto wattle walls.  Why they do this is
> because they feel that the lignin and pentose come out of the staw
> fibres and adds more stickiness to the mix and results in a harder
> resulting wall.   Note also that they don't do this to all of the
> straw.   They also feel that keeping the soil wet for a long time (up to
> a year or more for temples), three months average, but at minimum two
> weeks, is to let the iron in the soil oxydize and to let the organics in
> the soil float to the top and not used.   For the long soaking period
> they add the straw in not all at once in several additions.   The reason
> for this is said to be that the most fermented straws still have small
> fibres that grab the smaller clay particles and bind them together, and
> the lesser fermented and larger straw fibres then bind these together
> and so on until the newest straw added a day or two before application
> is then to hold all of the largest clumps together.
>
> The Japanese mud masoners also say its important for the straw and soil
> to get used to each other: they begin to meld together and the soil
> changes color after soaking for three weeks.  The optimal length of time
> for soaking the soil prior to use depends on the temperatures, but one
> rule of thumb is at least until the soil changes color and black mold
> forms on it (this is the oxidized iron I think or rust from it).
>
> For floors in Japan, from what I read, I hope to see some the end of
> this month, the (tataki) or tampered floors consisted of
>     1. a granite soil,
>     2. lime,
>     3. water, ( with optional salt or Magnesium-chloride left over from
> salt making)
>
>  These ingrediengs where mixed in a semi-dry mix and then tamped/rammed
> down to about 50-67% of the before packed level.  This technique was
> used for entry and kitchen floors and sewer lines. and runs around the
> house and was in use until about 70 or 80 years ago in the country side.
>
>  They used this for some fence walls as well.  Sometimes they would put
> a vegetable oil in it to aid in water protection, but one has to not
> over due the oil part.
>
>  I was just using their wall daub mixtures as an example of the smell of
> fermenting rice straws."
>
>
>
> I'd love to hear more on the daub and floor mixes from other Japanese
> builders.  Again, many thanks for the varied perspectives.
>
> Barbara
> Nevada City, CA
>


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